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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-ZA link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Right. What happens is that the soot you detect just above the flame is exposed to temps of the order of 600 deg C and it pyrolyses down to almost pure carbon. The soot is a polyaromatic hydrocarbon in any event, with lots of linked rings. As a little bit of residual hydrogen is driven off, the carbon becomes more and more refractory and becomes very small particles indeed – like buckyballs (buckminsterfullerene) which are C60 and ~1.1nm in diameter. At that scale they are too small to deposit in the lungs – respirable fractions start at around 2.5μm and end at about 0.25μm(250nm). The pyrolysing soot doesn’t burn because the carbon is quite refractory – think of trying to ignite graphite (incidentally, diamond burns well at about 700 deg C).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The blue comes from emission at flame temperature – in a really hot flame (e.g. well-mixed oxyacetylene) the emission extends well into the ultraviolet, leading to “welder’s eyes” and the need for dark goggles (at minimum) and full face protection (for big jobs). See Wikipedia<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><img width=489 height=336 id="Picture_x0020_2" src="cid:image002.png@01D17930.91D17730" alt="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/26/Spectrum_of_blue_flame_-_intensity_corrected.png/800px-Spectrum_of_blue_flame_-_intensity_corrected.png"></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal>Spectrum of the blue (premixed, i.e., complete combustion) flame from a <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butane" title=Butane>butane</a> torch showing molecular <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_%28chemistry%29" title="Radical (chemistry)">radical</a> band emission and <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swan_bands" title="Swan bands">Swan bands</a>. Note that virtually all the light produced is in the blue to green region of the spectrum below about 565 nanometers, accounting for the bluish color of sootless hydrocarbon flames.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><img border=0 width=679 height=335 id="Picture_x0020_6" src="cid:image005.png@01D17930.91D17730"><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><img border=0 width=379 height=103 id="Picture_x0020_9" src="cid:image009.png@01D17930.91D17730"></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Note the significant flux below 350nm i.e uv with the really huge peak at ~305nm, solidly in the dangerous uv region. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Hope that clarifies things<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Philip <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Crispin Pemberton-Pigott<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 8, 2016 9:34 AM<br><b>To:</b> Philip Lloyd<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] Inverse Diffusion Flames in TLUDs<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Philip, in short they become smaller and less sticky, correct?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>My mental picture of a paraffin (wax in this case) is that of a long chain being chopped into smaller and smaller pieces so that, given enough time and heat input, it be reduced to gases that are easily burned. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I was trying to contrast the action above a candle with the model of a particle being processed by a flame as described by Julien which is also a reasonable image. As the colour, or should I say the red and orange colours, of flames results from glowing particles. Then there is a sort of conflict between the idea of non-glowing particles being burned away amid glowing particles if the visible flames are themselves a bunch of particles. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Is it true that the blue portion of the flames is caused by burning CO? And that the cooler colours are from glowing particles? It seems the particles are reduced under a variety of conditions. How do we generalise, or maybe we can't. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I was under the impression that Buckyballs were constructed from free carbon, not that they were reduced from something. I don't think there are any Buckyballs in paraffin wax. If correct, it means the 'normal particles' would have to be disassembled and the carbon nanostructures assembled afterwards in an environment hot enough to pull apart the bonds but not hot enough to burn. Alternatively, in an oxygen-poor environment like the central region of the flame tip. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>How big are Buckyballs?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Crispin <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-GB><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>“</span><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The humble candle is a good example of PM formation. Particles exist immediately above the flame, in the clear space, but do not exist 60mm higher up, with no flame in between, meaning it is not necessary to have one to have PM burnout. This can be demonstrated using a saucer and passing it at different heights through the gas stream.” </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I think this is not correct. The candle soot changes its character above the flame, the particles do not disappear. Pyrolysis continues, because temperatures are still high at that point. The products of the pyrolysis become smaller and smaller carbon particles which don’t condense readily – but they are there. That is why “buckyballs”, widely prevalent above candle flames, were missed for so long, and why the Sistine Chapel has needed drastic cleaning every century or so (the arrival of electric lighting should spare the paintings in future). </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Prof Philip Lloyd</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Energy Institute, CPUT</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>SARETEC, Sachs Circle</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Bellville</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Tel 021 959 4323</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Cell 083 441 5247</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>PA Nadia 021 959 4330</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Stoves [<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Crispin Pemberton-Pigott<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 8, 2016 4:26 AM<br><b>To:</b> Julien Winter<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] Inverse Diffusion Flames in TLUDs</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Dear Julien</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>This is a most valuable analysis. At the end I was inspired to add something that could be appended. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The draft of the system can be driven by a chimney. For example the Mongolian TLUD's which are among the cleanest stoves anywhere have to be tested with some length of chimney. The manufacturers make no statements, at least no useful ones, about the chimney height. The height is forgotten by most, save the testers. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The mixing and the flame length and the flame sheet and the length of flamelets are all affected by the draft. China tests all stoves with a four metre tall chimney under the national protocol. The average installed chimney height is five metres, or six, it has been hard to say with clarity. Current testing of 16 stoves for Hebei Province at CAU (BST Lab) is using a six metre chimney because that is what was observed in Hebei. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Whatever result is obtained at a given level of draft, it will change if the draft is changed, especially if the pressure changes by 50%. In Mongolia the tests are done with a 2.8m chimney because the typical application is a yurt. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The advantage of a fan is that the pressure can be controlled at will, but the added complexity is a problem for many. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The humble candle is a good example of PM formation. Particles exist immediately above the flame, in the clear space, but do not exist 60mm higher up, with no flame in between, meaning it is not necessary to have one to have PM burnout. This can be demonstrated using a saucer and passing it at different heights through the gas stream. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Placing a glass tube above the flame that pulls it into the bottom hole can not only pretty much eliminate the PM, it can also nearly eliminate the visible flame. There are YouTube videos of this phenomenon. The additional draft changes almost everything so it forms part of the discussion. Changing the TLUD power level changes the draft which changes the power level which changes the draft...</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Regards </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Crispin </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span lang=EN-GB>Hi all;</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB>Here is an interesting article about inverse diffusion flames IDF similar to what we see in many TLUDs:<br><br>Blevins, L. G., Yang, N. Y., Mulholland, G. W., Davis, R. W., & Steel, E. B. 2002. Early soot from inverse diffusion flames. Prepr. Pap.-Amer. Chem. Soc., DiV. Fuel Chem, 47(2), 740-741. <br clear=all></span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span lang=EN-GB><br><a href="https://web.anl.gov/PCS/acsfuel/preprint%20archive/Files/47_2_Boston_10-02_0236.pdf">https://web.anl.gov/PCS/acsfuel/preprint%20archive/Files/47_2_Boston_10-02_0236.pdf</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB>I have attached a photo of standard diffusion flame and an IDF of ethylene flames near their sooting limits. (Kumfer, BM; Skeen, SA; Axelbaum, RL. 2008. Soot inception limits in laminar diffusion flames with application to oxy-fuel combustion. Combustion and Flame 154; 546-556)<br><img border=0 width=305 height=440 id="x__x005f_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image002.jpg@01D17911.91D42760" alt="Inline image 1"></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB><br><br><br>In her article, Linda Blevins argues that soot forms on the outside edge of an IDF, then follows a trajectory away from the flame, and escapes oxidation. In a standard diffusion flame, soot tends to be oxidized in the tip of the flame.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span lang=EN-GB><br>One common type of syngas burner for TLUDs has secondary air entering the gas burner through small holes. The flamelets arrising from these holes start out as a type of IDF. Syngas rises from below, so the underside of the flamelets should be more fuel rich than the top side (which may be lean). Therefore, soot production in a TLUD burner should be greatest on the underside of the flamelets. If the flamlets coaless to form a sheet of flame across the width of the gas burner, then (most?) soot particles will have to pass through this flame and oxidized to varying degrees.<br><br>However, if we turn down the gasification rate in the TLUD, so there is not a continuous sheet of flame across the width of the burner, is there a change in the nature of soot particles in the exhause gas from the stove? Will there be a higher proportion of polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons vs black carbon from a turned down TLUD? Of course, when turned down the mass of soot emitted may not be very high. All the same, this is an example of why we should characterize emissions from stoves over a wide range of power levels when assessing health risks.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB>Cheers,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB>Julien. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span lang=EN-GB> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB><br>-- </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-GB>Julien Winter<br>Cobourg, ON, CANADA</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>