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Dear Tony,<br>
<br>
Introductory message:<br>
<br>
1. I have been on the Stoves Listserv for about 15 years and IMHO
your message is by far the most complete INITIAL CONTACT that has
ever been received, complete with photos!!! I and probably many
others are impressed with your thorough introduction and evident
preparations.<br>
<br>
2. Raw loose sawdust is generally not a good fuel for rockets or
TLUDs or almost any stove type (unless in a fluidized bed with
blowers and much expense in larger systems).<br>
<br>
3. It sounds like your school and local community and local area
would be good candidates for some type of pelletizing operation.
But that involves some serious investment of funds and time, and you
should get good advice on it. (Not from me. I like pellets, but
somebody else needs to make them, or make briquettes, etc.)
Briquetting might be a better option. Check the website of
legacyfound.org and discuss with Richard Stanley, who is a
subsrciber to this Stoves Listserv. Making (pre-processing) of
fuels should be considered as a related but separate "business
venture" with leadership and workers who can function separately
from the stoves and cooking activities. <br>
<br>
4. Paal Wendelbo always said "Start with the fuel." What can you
tell us about dry biomass fuels available in addition to sawdust?
This will shape the discussions and final stoves. Scrap wood, scrap
bamboo (or bamboo harvested for stove fuel), can be put to use if
you have it. What agricultural residues are in the area? Corn
stalks and cobs? Rice straw that is burned to get rid of it?
There is no sense promoting a specific design untill we have a
better feel of the fuel options. <br>
<br>
5. Your school-kitchen operation is large enough that you should
consider some larger heat-units that can send flame to more than one
pot. That is not done very frequently, so some development work
would be needed. Also, you might want to consider having a "fire
tender" who looks after several (or all) stoves and is not involved
in cooking. Division of labor to get the jobs done efficiency can
be useful.<br>
<br>
6. Multiple stoves can use one chimney, especially if arranged in a
line or curve so that the distance from each stove is as short as
possible. You might even use that distance for having pre-drying
of your biomass fuels. If you had a brick chimney about 6 feet
tall (or 2 meters), it would get hot and give a good natural
draft. With a chimney, you must have the pots essentially seal off
the air gaps; too much excess air will severely hurt your draft.<br>
<br>
7. The ability to have Forced Air (FA) is extremely important.
Tell us more about the reliabily of electrical power at your site.
<br>
<br>
8. Please tell us more about your operation. Where are you in
Indonesia? More info about yourself, please. What is your
timetable and your resources (skills, funds, personnel, etc.).<br>
<br>
Others on the Stoves Listserv will be joining into this
conversation. <br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/4/2016 2:56 PM, Tony Vovers wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:078d01d18eac$1cd14190$5673c4b0$@gmail.com"
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<p class="MsoNormal">Dear Stoves experts I am looking for some
advice and help from experts in the field on a specific
project.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Cooking Stoves for a School<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Currently this international school in
Indonesia is using Rocket style cookstoves with sawdust as
fuel source. (and some used timber/bamboo)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Typical daily activity is to prepare food
for up to 600 people, smaller breakfast, full on lunch.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The stoves are used for all types of
cooking, typically in large pots 20-40lt. There are up to 10
stoves running at any one time in a covered but not indoor
area.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Most of the stoves are constructed from
bricks with some metal gratings<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The current cookstoves were a part of a
previous environmentally focused student lead project.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The key issues are: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The rocket stoves though not very labor
intensive are normally not functioning even close to original
designs in practice with variable output and quite often loss
of the “rocket” during burn.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The kitchen staff do not have a lot of time
to devote to maintenance and operation, they need a stable and
repeatable solution.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The current stoves are not very efficient
creating considerable smoke, attempts to add some forced air
as both primary and secondary air have been largely
unsuccessful (too complicated to control)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">This link shows some pictures of current
setup:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#212121;background:white"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://goo.gl/photos/6PfARtHjAYwB66oo8"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://goo.gl/photos/6PfARtHjAYwB66oo8">https://goo.gl/photos/6PfARtHjAYwB66oo8</a></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I have been following this list now for
last 6 months or so and reviewing with interest many of the
projects in particular the TLUD concepts and some of the
innovative use of venturi from both air and water(steam) and
am looking for some advice/ideas to move ahead with a better
concept and direction for both the stoves and maybe the fuel
in this application.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Key design points for up to 10 stoves:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sawdust as fuel source<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Fast load and start<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">2-4 hours of efficient burn time (prefer
continuous feed if practical for some units)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">20-40Liter Cook Pots or Wok of similar
size.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ability to adjust or divert heat as
temperature control<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Simple maintenance and control, long stove
life<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Control of effluent / exhaust in the work
area – we are thinking in terms of chimneys or ducting. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:.5in">Current stoves
vent around the pot.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Fuel – is it worth to add steps
(pelletizing?) to the fuel preparation<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Soft features:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ability to use instrumentation and control
for development of project and student training on the use of
advanced cook stoves, on use of BioFuels for cooking and
Biochar creation and to develop the best in class design for
this kitchen.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Primary& Secondary air measurement and
control<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Monitoring/Observing the burn real time
(hard to see under the pot<span style="font-family:Wingdings">J</span>)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Burn efficiency (thermal and chemical)
monitoring/measurement and effluent testing, both gases and
solid waste<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Overall energy efficiency – low / no use of
external power (electricity) preferred but not a showstopper<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Longer term if project is successful
simpler designs would be rolled out to neighboring school and
community facilities as currently the sawdust is available as
a local “waste” product. It is very likely that existing TLUD
designs can fit the community needs but some convincing is
needed for the local community.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I understand that this is a little away
from the typical focus of this group but there is no doubt
that at the moment Indonesia has a massive “burning” problem
affecting health and well being of people and animals. We want
to increase students knowledge and interest in the real
opportunities that managed burning and Biochar creation could
have over the current practices of open fires for both cooking
and disposal of organic waste. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">For sure whatever we end up doing will be
shared with this (stoves) community.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">We expect some or all of this project to be
student lead or student involved.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Some key questions:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Is TLUD the recommended solution type for
this application or is some other approach more suitable?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">How to maintain cooking efficiency but
include exhaust duct/chimney in the design? <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">If continuous feed or in-situ reloading is
not feasible is there some kind of quick change design that
would allow cooking to resume with minimal downtime between
burns?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Is there something that could be done with
multiple stoves to simplify design (ducting?)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Are bricks and mortar a suitable building
material or should the focus move to steel?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">How to efficiently “tune” a stove for
efficiency – correct amounts of primary, secondary air.
Previous local experiments are inconclusive as there have been
far too many variables.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Is sawdust a suitable fuel?? or should it
be compressed/pelletized for use??<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif">Tony Vovers <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif">+62 (813) 3888 9062</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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