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To all,<br>
<br>
PLEASE do not hijack titles in Subject lines. When you or someone
drastically changes the topic of an email message, you should change
the subject. Certainly the topic of "August stove camp" has no
relevance to SEVERAL prior messages. <br>
<br>
There is no justification that you are maintaining the "thread" for
readers to be able to access prior or later messages on the topic.
People interested in Stove Camp want to look at messages about Stove
Camp, not about unrelated topics, regardless of how important those
other topics might be. <br>
<br>
Thank you.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/25/2016 10:06 AM, Andy Shirley
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAGre4qHki_=TKkA+BWMuVJEObQD_n=EH2KF09MkexxQHye4P6A@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Dear Prof!
<div>You should take this issue up with google, not me, because
their graphs show a dramatic increase in atmospheric carbon
dioxide after about 1800. The gradient may have increased
after the 1950s. I lack the expertise or tools to determine
that, but, really, that's irrelevant. The trend has been
obvious for the last two centuries.</div>
<div>Your comments about the Nazis and horses are unbelievable
and totally wrong. The Germans were chronically short of
suitable fossil fuels during WW11, but whatever they had they
used to wage war. Are you seriously saying that the wehrmacht
was not a mechanised army? The use of horses was expedient,
and that's about all you can say.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My last gripe is your use of name-dropping titles. If it's
designed to intimidate me into silence, I think that's a
pretty poor show.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Andy </div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 6:11 PM, Philip
Lloyd <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:plloyd@mweb.co.za" target="_blank">plloyd@mweb.co.za</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-ZA">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Dear
Andy</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">You
say “</span>Carbon in the atmosphere has increased
dramatically for 2 hundred years” <span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">This
is something of a misconception. Carbon in the
atmosphere only started rising rapidly after about
1950, after WW2. Before then, fossil fuel
consumption was quite low. People remember Hitler’s
<i>blitzkrieg</i> mechanized advances. They forget
that when he invaded Russia in 1941, his transport
required one million horses. The fields were burned
during his advance to deny him forage.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Slightly
off topic, for which apologies, but I felt some
correction was due.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Prof
Philip Lloyd</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Energy
Institute, CPUT</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">SARETEC,
Sachs Circle</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Bellville</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Tel
021 959 4323</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Cell
083 441 5247</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">PA
Nadia 021 959 4330</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US"> Stoves [mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a></a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Andy Shirley<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 25, 2016 1:41 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] August Stove Camp
Fwd: [biochar] Emissions and Char Quality of
Flame-Curtain "Kon Tiki" Kilns for Farmer-Scale
Charcoal/Biochar Production</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Tony,</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I am dismayed that you
think sequestration of carbon as biochar is a
non-starter. I was hoping it was the one ray
of sunshine in a gloomy future.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Carbon in the atmosphere
has increased dramatically for 2 hundred
years. This stimulates the growth of trees
(and all plants). If the trees (or other
plants) are allowed to be harvested and the
carbon released back into the atmosphere, the
net effect on atmospheric carbon is zero over
a reasonably short time frame. If the tree is
allowed to live out its life without
interference, the time-frame is extended, but
the net effect over a century or so would
still be zero.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The grand use of biochar
would extend this time-frame, hopefully, to
thousands of years, thus lowering atmospheric
carbon in the meantime.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">There would need to be a
world-wide ban on the sale of fertilisers,
whether chemical or biological, unless mixed
with biochar, suitably proportioned and
treated.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I cannot see how a
fertiliser/biochar product favours
monoculture.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Andy Shirley</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, May 25, 2016 at
3:26 AM, Tony Vovers <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:vovers1@gmail.com"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vovers1@gmail.com">vovers1@gmail.com</a></a>>
wrote:</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for the
information on the Biochar initiative. </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">In some areas the Biochar
and the Stove initiative dovetail, this List
Server is great for stove information and
support but I did not really find a similar
site for BioChar.</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">There is a separate
"gasification" list server which seems to
partially cover the topic.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.5pt"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org"
target="_blank"><span
style="font-size:9.5pt"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org</a></span></a></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">If there is a better
resource please point me at it.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">For stoves it is an
important decision in design to evaluate
the "value" of any Biochar production and
whether char production should be
maximized or valued.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The more I read on the
topic of Biochar the more I believe that
producing huge volumes of Biochar and
burying it in the belief it is good for
the environment is a misguided monoculture
approach to the topic and I would like to
engage more in understanding.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I wish i had time in
August to join both Stove and Char in
Oregon but the timing does not look good
at the moment.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks to all Stovers
for the motivating discussions and support
that this list server brings.</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
</p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Tony Vovers</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B1%20281%207381000"
target="_blank">+1 281 7381000</a>
(VOIP)<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B62%20%28813%29%203888%209062"
target="_blank">+62 (813) 3888
9062</a> (HP)</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, May 24,
2016 at 6:47 AM, Paul Anderson <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a></a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Stovers,<br>
<br>
Ignore if not of interest. It is
mainly about biochar, but it
relates to char-producing stoves
AND to the Stove Camp at Aprovecho
on 15 - 19 August, an event that
some of you could be attending. <br>
<br>
Information about all of the
events in Oregon this August is at
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.drtlud.com/oregon-events-august-2016/"
target="_blank">http://www.drtlud.com/oregon-events-august-2016/</a>
<br>
<br>
Please do NOT discuss biochar
issues at this Stoves Listserv.
This is a one-time notice.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Biocharists:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The recent,
peer-reviewed publication about
Kon-Tiki flame curtain pyrolysis
(cited below) is MAJOR!!!!
Congratulations to the authors and
everyone involved in this effort.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">One of the six
authors, Dr. Paul Taylor, will be
in Oregon in mid-August for the
biochar events there, including
attending the US Biochar
Initiative conference where he
will probably be a presenter in a
session. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">We are
fortunate to have Dr. Taylor as a
featured presenter and participant
at the "Char Production Gathering"
on 19 - 20 August at Aprovecho (he
arrives one day earlier during the
Stove Camp). Attendees of the
Char Production Gathering will
have the opportunity to
participate in discussions and
hands-on experiments with Dr.
Taylor regarding “Flame Curtain
Pyrolysis” (FCP) and the devices
that accomplish the task, with
attention to issues of </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">size, </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">safety, </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">construction
materials, </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">designs (cones,
pyramids, covered barrel - C4
kiln, earth pits, etc.)</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">labor of
operation, </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">quenching
alternatives, </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">fuel options, </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">yield of char,
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">char
characteristics, and </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">possible usage
of the heat to offset the
expenses.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">ALL
participants of the Char
Production Gathering must register
separately from the regular Summer
Stove Camp (which has its own
registration). Registration
details will be announced soon at
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.drtlud.com/oregon-events-august-2016/"
target="_blank">http://www.drtlud.com/oregon-events-august-2016/</a>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Paul</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<pre>Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD</pre>
<pre>Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a></pre>
<pre>Skype: paultlud Phone: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B1-309-452-7072" target="_blank">+1-309-452-7072</a></pre>
<pre>Website: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.drtlud.com" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
-------- Forwarded Message
-------- </p>
<table border="0" cellpadding="0"
cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="padding:0cm 0cm
0cm 0cm" nowrap="nowrap"
valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:right"
align="right"><b>Subject:
</b></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:0cm 0cm
0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal">[biochar]
Emissions and Char
Quality of Flame-Curtain
"Kon Tiki" Kilns for
Farmer-Scale
Charcoal/Biochar
Production</p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:0cm 0cm
0cm 0cm" nowrap="nowrap"
valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:right"
align="right"><b>Date: </b></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:0cm 0cm
0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal">Sat,
21 May 2016 08:11:35
-0700</p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:0cm 0cm
0cm 0cm" nowrap="nowrap"
valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:right"
align="right"><b>From: </b></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:0cm 0cm
0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal">'Tom
Miles' <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:tmiles@trmiles.com" target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:tmiles@trmiles.com">tmiles@trmiles.com</a></a>
[biochar] <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com"><biochar@yahoogroups.com></a></a></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:0cm 0cm
0cm 0cm" nowrap="nowrap"
valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:right"
align="right"><b>Reply-To:
</b></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:0cm 0cm
0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com">biochar@yahoogroups.com</a></a></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="padding:0cm 0cm
0cm 0cm" nowrap="nowrap"
valign="top">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:right"
align="right"><b>To: </b></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:0cm 0cm
0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com">biochar@yahoogroups.com</a></a></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
</p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0154617" target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0154617">http://dx.doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0154617</a></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Gerard
Cornelissen, Naba Raj
Pandit, Paul Taylor,
Bishnu Hari Pandit,
Magnus Sparrevik, Hans
Peter Schmidt</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Good
report on flame cap kiln
biochar. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Tom
Miles</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">USBI
Biochar 2016</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.usbi2016.org" target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.usbi2016.org">www.usbi2016.org</a></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:white">__._,_.___</span></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-top:7.5pt">
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center"
align="center">
<hr style="color:#e3e3e3"
align="center"
noshade="noshade"
size="2" width="100%"></div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Posted
by: "Tom Miles" <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:tmiles@trmiles.com"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:tmiles@trmiles.com"><tmiles@trmiles.com></a></a>
</p>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center"
align="center">
<hr style="color:#e3e3e3"
align="center"
noshade="noshade"
size="2" width="100%"></div>
</div>
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<td
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3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
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style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#2d50fd"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/biochar/conversations/messages/19424;_ylc=X3oDMTJyN2ZiazhpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRtc2dJZAMxOTQyNARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzE0NjM4NDM0OTg-?act=reply&messageNum=19424"
target="_blank"><span style="color:#2d50fd;text-decoration:none">Reply
via web post</span></a>
</span></b></p>
</td>
<td style="padding:.75pt
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<p class="MsoNormal"
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style="color:#2d50fd">•</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:7.5pt;margin-left:0cm"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#2d50fd"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:tmiles@trmiles.com?subject=Re%3A%20Emissions%20and%20Char%20Quality%20of%20Flame-Curtain%20%22Kon%20Tiki%22%20Kilns%20for%20Farmer-Scale%20Charcoal%2FBiochar%20Production"
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</td>
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<p class="MsoNormal"
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style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#2d50fd"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20Emissions%20and%20Char%20Quality%20of%20Flame-Curtain%20%22Kon%20Tiki%22%20Kilns%20for%20Farmer-Scale%20Charcoal%2FBiochar%20Production"
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a>
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