<div dir="ltr">Dear Prof!<div>You should take this issue up with google, not me, because their graphs show a dramatic increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide after about 1800. The gradient may have increased after the 1950s. I lack the expertise or tools to determine that, but, really, that's irrelevant. The trend has been obvious for the last two centuries.</div><div>Your comments about the Nazis and horses are unbelievable and totally wrong. The Germans were chronically short of suitable fossil fuels during WW11, but whatever they had they used to wage war. Are you seriously saying that the wehrmacht was not a mechanised army? The use of horses was expedient, and that's about all you can say.</div><div><br></div><div>My last gripe is your use of name-dropping titles. If it's designed to intimidate me into silence, I think that's a pretty poor show.</div><div><br></div><div>Andy </div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 6:11 PM, Philip Lloyd <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:plloyd@mweb.co.za" target="_blank">plloyd@mweb.co.za</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-ZA" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Dear Andy<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">You say “</span>Carbon in the atmosphere has increased dramatically for 2 hundred years” <span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">This is something of a misconception. Carbon in the atmosphere only started rising rapidly after about 1950, after WW2. Before then, fossil fuel consumption was quite low. People remember Hitler’s <i>blitzkrieg</i> mechanized advances. They forget that when he invaded Russia in 1941, his transport required one million horses. The fields were burned during his advance to deny him forage.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Slightly off topic, for which apologies, but I felt some correction was due.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Prof Philip Lloyd<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Energy Institute, CPUT<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">SARETEC, Sachs Circle<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Bellville<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Tel 021 959 4323<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Cell 083 441 5247<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">PA Nadia 021 959 4330<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Stoves [mailto:<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Andy Shirley<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 25, 2016 1:41 AM<br><b>To:</b> Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] August Stove Camp Fwd: [biochar] Emissions and Char Quality of Flame-Curtain "Kon Tiki" Kilns for Farmer-Scale Charcoal/Biochar Production<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><div class="h5"><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">Tony,<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">I am dismayed that you think sequestration of carbon as biochar is a non-starter. I was hoping it was the one ray of sunshine in a gloomy future.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Carbon in the atmosphere has increased dramatically for 2 hundred years. This stimulates the growth of trees (and all plants). If the trees (or other plants) are allowed to be harvested and the carbon released back into the atmosphere, the net effect on atmospheric carbon is zero over a reasonably short time frame. If the tree is allowed to live out its life without interference, the time-frame is extended, but the net effect over a century or so would still be zero.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">The grand use of biochar would extend this time-frame, hopefully, to thousands of years, thus lowering atmospheric carbon in the meantime.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">There would need to be a world-wide ban on the sale of fertilisers, whether chemical or biological, unless mixed with biochar, suitably proportioned and treated.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">I cannot see how a fertiliser/biochar product favours monoculture.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Andy Shirley<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 3:26 AM, Tony Vovers <<a href="mailto:vovers1@gmail.com" target="_blank">vovers1@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for the information on the Biochar initiative. <u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal">In some areas the Biochar and the Stove initiative dovetail, this List Server is great for stove information and support but I did not really find a similar site for BioChar.<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">There is a separate "gasification" list server which seems to partially cover the topic.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt"> </span><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9.5pt">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">If there is a better resource please point me at it.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">For stoves it is an important decision in design to evaluate the "value" of any Biochar production and whether char production should be maximized or valued.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">The more I read on the topic of Biochar the more I believe that producing huge volumes of Biochar and burying it in the belief it is good for the environment is a misguided monoculture approach to the topic and I would like to engage more in understanding.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">I wish i had time in August to join both Stove and Char in Oregon but the timing does not look good at the moment.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Thanks to all Stovers for the motivating discussions and support that this list server brings.<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all"><u></u><u></u></p><div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Tony Vovers<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="tel:%2B1%20281%207381000" target="_blank">+1 281 7381000</a> (VOIP)<br><a href="tel:%2B62%20%28813%29%203888%209062" target="_blank">+62 (813) 3888 9062</a> (HP)<u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 6:47 AM, Paul Anderson <<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Stovers,<br><br>Ignore if not of interest. It is mainly about biochar, but it relates to char-producing stoves AND to the Stove Camp at Aprovecho on 15 - 19 August, an event that some of you could be attending. <br><br>Information about all of the events in Oregon this August is at <a href="http://www.drtlud.com/oregon-events-august-2016/" target="_blank">http://www.drtlud.com/oregon-events-august-2016/</a> <br><br>Please do NOT discuss biochar issues at this Stoves Listserv. This is a one-time notice.<br><br>Paul<br><br><br><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Biocharists:<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">The recent, peer-reviewed publication about Kon-Tiki flame curtain pyrolysis (cited below) is MAJOR!!!! Congratulations to the authors and everyone involved in this effort.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">One of the six authors, Dr. Paul Taylor, will be in Oregon in mid-August for the biochar events there, including attending the US Biochar Initiative conference where he will probably be a presenter in a session. <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">We are fortunate to have Dr. Taylor as a featured presenter and participant at the "Char Production Gathering" on 19 - 20 August at Aprovecho (he arrives one day earlier during the Stove Camp). Attendees of the Char Production Gathering will have the opportunity to participate in discussions and hands-on experiments with Dr. Taylor regarding “Flame Curtain Pyrolysis” (FCP) and the devices that accomplish the task, with attention to issues of <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">size, <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">safety, <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">construction materials, <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">designs (cones, pyramids, covered barrel - C4 kiln, earth pits, etc.)<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">labor of operation, <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">quenching alternatives, <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">fuel options, <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">yield of char, <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">char characteristics, and <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">possible usage of the heat to offset the expenses.<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">ALL participants of the Char Production Gathering must register separately from the regular Summer Stove Camp (which has its own registration). Registration details will be announced soon at <a href="http://www.drtlud.com/oregon-events-august-2016/" target="_blank">http://www.drtlud.com/oregon-events-august-2016/</a> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Paul<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><br><br><br><u></u><u></u></p><pre>Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD<u></u><u></u></pre><pre>Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a><u></u><u></u></pre><pre>Skype: paultlud Phone: <a href="tel:%2B1-309-452-7072" target="_blank">+1-309-452-7072</a><u></u><u></u></pre><pre>Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a><u></u><u></u></pre><div><p class="MsoNormal"><br><br>-------- Forwarded Message -------- <u></u><u></u></p><table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td nowrap valign="top" style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p class="MsoNormal" align="right" style="text-align:right"><b>Subject: <u></u><u></u></b></p></td><td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p class="MsoNormal">[biochar] Emissions and Char Quality of Flame-Curtain "Kon Tiki" Kilns for Farmer-Scale Charcoal/Biochar Production<u></u><u></u></p></td></tr><tr><td nowrap valign="top" style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p class="MsoNormal" align="right" style="text-align:right"><b>Date: <u></u><u></u></b></p></td><td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p class="MsoNormal">Sat, 21 May 2016 08:11:35 -0700<u></u><u></u></p></td></tr><tr><td nowrap valign="top" style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p class="MsoNormal" align="right" style="text-align:right"><b>From: <u></u><u></u></b></p></td><td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p class="MsoNormal">'Tom Miles' <a href="mailto:tmiles@trmiles.com" target="_blank">tmiles@trmiles.com</a> [biochar] <a href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank"><biochar@yahoogroups.com></a><u></u><u></u></p></td></tr><tr><td nowrap valign="top" style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p class="MsoNormal" align="right" style="text-align:right"><b>Reply-To: <u></u><u></u></b></p></td><td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank">biochar@yahoogroups.com</a><u></u><u></u></p></td></tr><tr><td nowrap valign="top" style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p class="MsoNormal" align="right" style="text-align:right"><b>To: <u></u><u></u></b></p></td><td style="padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank">biochar@yahoogroups.com</a><u></u><u></u></p></td></tr></tbody></table><p class="MsoNormal"><br><br> <u></u><u></u></p><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://dx.doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0154617" target="_blank">http://dx.doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0154617</a><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Gerard Cornelissen, Naba Raj Pandit, Paul Taylor, Bishnu Hari Pandit, Magnus Sparrevik, Hans Peter Schmidt<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Good report on flame cap kiln biochar. <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Tom Miles<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">USBI Biochar 2016<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.usbi2016.org" target="_blank">www.usbi2016.org</a><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:white">__._,_.___<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div style="margin-top:7.5pt"><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><hr size="2" width="100%" noshade style="color:#e3e3e3" align="center"></div><p class="MsoNormal">Posted by: "Tom Miles" <a href="mailto:tmiles@trmiles.com" target="_blank"><tmiles@trmiles.com></a> <u></u><u></u></p><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><hr size="2" width="100%" noshade style="color:#e3e3e3" align="center"></div></div><table border="0" cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr><td style="padding:5.25pt 3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:7.5pt;margin-left:0cm"><b><span 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