<div dir="ltr">Hi Ingelore, <div><br></div><div>Thanks for that feedback, where in Kenya are you? We tried stocking them at two different outlets of ours a few years ago and we only managed to sell one or two if I remember correctly. The main complaint was the ugali issue. What and how do you market yours differently? I really like the insulated cookers myself and use one occasionally and home with good results for beans. </div><div><br></div><div>Thanks, </div><div><br></div><div>Teddy <br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><b><br></b></div><div><b><br></b></div><div><b>Cookswell Jikos</b><br><a href="http://www.cookswell.co.ke" target="_blank">www.cookswell.co.ke</a></div><div><a href="http://www.facebook.com/CookswellJikos" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/CookswellJikos</a></div><div><a href="http://www.kenyacharcoal.blogspot.com" target="_blank">www.kenyacharcoal.blogspot.com</a></div><div>Mobile: +254 700 380 009 <br></div><div>Mobile: +254 700 905 913</div><div>P.O. Box 1433, Nairobi 00606, Kenya</div><div><img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-mFnK50B4oS8/UUrgJle8z9I/AAAAAAAAB_o/OUjLd7wrKPg/s133/Cookswell+Logo.PNG" width="71" height="96"><br></div><div><font color="#008000" face="Tms Rmn">Save trees - think twice before printing</font><font size="1" color="#008000" face="Tms Rmn">.</font><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><br><br></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 7:26 PM, Ingelore Kahrens <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tutaonana@onlinehome.de" target="_blank">tutaonana@onlinehome.de</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p>Hello all,</p>
<p>I have been following your discussions for some time with great
interest. And I would like to add my experiences with
retained-heat cookers.In our organization in Kenya we promote them
along with improved stoves and solar box cookers. Women make the
retained-heat cookers with baskets and like them very much. As far
as your opinion about cooking ugali in these basket cookers is
concerned, I have to object seriously. You start cooking the ugali
on a fire and as soon as it is hot you transfer it to a basket
cooker. The finished product is very tasty. This is what the women
we have worked with have confirmed. Besides, the same holds for
solar-cooked ugali.</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>Ingelore Kahrens<br>
</p><div><div class="h5">
<br>
<div>Am 31.05.2016 um 17:15 schrieb
Cookswell Jikos:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Dear Kirk -
<div><br>
</div>
<div>''<span style="font-family:Arial">Dieter has brought up the
concept of retained heat cooking in an insulated container.
Would anybody even need turn-down in a cook stove? Is
retained heat cooking the better solution, or is it good to
have both?'' </span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:Arial"><br>
</span></div>
<div><font face="Arial">I think it would very much depend on
what is being cooked and in what type of kitchen setting. If
this question of ambient air temperature has more
than noticeable effects on the stove performance, then it is
something I imagine a cook would approve or disapprove of
and that can make or break a sale (or a 'user' using in the
case of a free stove).</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial">Say you sell the same stove to be used
in an igloo as for a maasai manyatta...would your customer
notice any differences that would affect the quality of
making dinner etc.? Retained heat works for some foods, but
for staples like fufu, (sima or ugali) that need to be
boiled, and then vigorously stirred and then simmered it
gets tricky as does stir-frying.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial">There is (a simmering?) demand in Kenya
for simmering cookstoves in SME settings, the popular one
right now is a smokey sawdust stove that is basically a
metal cylinder with a door tube that you pack with saw dust
around two glass bottles stacked like a rocket stove - you
then remove the bottles and fill with firewood and light the
bottom side. This lets the water boil on the firewood phase
and then the slow burn of the saw dust keeps the water
simmering. They are used by 1000's of small eatery joints
around Kenya for keeping goats head soup warm and also
keeping ugali (like polenta) warm wrapped
in polythene plastic bags! </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial">I would like to know more about all
these different tests Crispin mentions - how many cookstove
tests are there in total? Between the VITA the ProBEC and
the StarSOP, who uses which tests...do the various Govts.
and Donors agree on one test for the most part? I do suppose
though that given the phenomenal variations in global
cooking and fuel type that an equally complex set of
testing procedures would be needed. My only concern is how
does the end user of the stove make use of this information
in their day to day life? Do any of them provide for a
simple energy star style of rating for ease of laymans
understanding? What would the 'stars' be for,
emissions, efficiency, durability, safety? </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial">Many thanks, <br>
<br>
</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial">Teddy </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial">On post note: </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial">In regards to cooking in igloos - Wiki
says a <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kudlik#/media/File:Qulliq_1999-04-01.jpg" target="_blank">Quilliq</a>
is used to burn seal or whale fat...I wonder what tier these
would fall under? But could lard as a cooking energy source
though? Would it count as biomass? We once tried to make a
jiko with Dad that used the falling fat from the goat ribs
to flare up with enough heat to cook another set of
ribs...but they were so tasty we never managed to finish the
experiment ;) </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"><br>
</font></div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><b><br>
</b></div>
<div><b><br>
</b></div>
<div><b>Cookswell Jikos</b><br>
<a href="http://www.cookswell.co.ke" target="_blank">www.cookswell.co.ke</a></div>
<div><a href="http://www.facebook.com/CookswellJikos" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/CookswellJikos</a></div>
<div><a href="http://www.kenyacharcoal.blogspot.com" target="_blank">www.kenyacharcoal.blogspot.com</a></div>
<div>Mobile: +254 700 380 009 <br>
</div>
<div>Mobile: +254 700 905 913</div>
<div>P.O. Box 1433, Nairobi 00606, Kenya</div>
<div><img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-mFnK50B4oS8/UUrgJle8z9I/AAAAAAAAB_o/OUjLd7wrKPg/s133/Cookswell+Logo.PNG" height="96" width="71"><br>
</div>
<div><font face="Tms Rmn" color="#008000">Save trees -
think twice before printing</font><font face="Tms Rmn" color="#008000" size="1">.</font><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, May 31, 2016 at 11:34 AM,
kgharris <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kgharris@sonic.net" target="_blank">kgharris@sonic.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="white" vlink="#954f72" link="#0563c1" lang="EN-ZA">
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Prof Lloyd,</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">This is great! The heat
loss from the pot is less because the room temperature
is higher. Thus I can't keep the water temperature
down. I will definately think this one through and
try some experiments.</font> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Dieter has brought up the
concept of retained heat cooking in an insulated
container. Would anybody even need turn-down in a
cook stove? Is retained heat cooking the better
solution, or is it good to have both?</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Thank You,</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Kirk</font></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#000000 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px" dir="ltr"><span>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial">----- Original Message
----- </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial;BACKGROUND:#e4e4e4"><b>From:</b>
<a title="plloyd@mweb.co.za" href="mailto:plloyd@mweb.co.za" target="_blank">Philip
Lloyd</a> </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">'Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves'</a> </div>
</span>
<div>
<div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday,
May 31, 2016 12:59 AM</div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re:
[Stoves] Effect of ambient temperature on stove
testing at lowpower</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Dear
Kirk</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">I
have lurked during this discussion – forgive
me for entering it now.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">You
believed “the increase in ambient room
temperature had changed the turn-down
performance of the stove.” </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">You
may have been mistaken. I think what happened
was that the ambient room temperature changed
the measurement you were attempting to make.
At the higher ambient temperature there was
less rate of heat loss from the cooking pot,
so it took less fuel to keep it hot and the
turndown ratio – as you define it – changed.
So the problem may lie with your definition of
the turndown ratio. I use the minimal
sustainable firepower, determined from the
rate of fuel feed which just keeps the fire
going, as my lower measure, and the maximum
firepower I can achieve without significant
oxygen starvation as the upper one, and have
yet to see the sort of effect of ambient
temperature on the ratio of the upper to the
lower that you report with your definition of
the ratio.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">In
a word, you may be picking up a change in the
heat transfer from the pot as the ambient
temperature changes, rather than anything
fundamental about the stove performance.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">I
hope that suggestion assists.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Kind
regards</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Prof
Philip Lloyd</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Energy
Institute, CPUT</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">SARETEC,
Sachs Circle</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Bellville</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Tel
021 959 4323</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Cell
083 441 5247</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">PA
Nadia 021 959 4330</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0cm;PADDING-LEFT:0cm;PADDING-RIGHT:0cm;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Tahoma','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Tahoma','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt" lang="EN-US"> Stoves [mailto:<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank"></a><a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>kgharris<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 31, 2016 8:08 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] stove test</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Arial','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt" lang="EN-CA">Crispin,</span><span lang="EN-CA"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Arial','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt" lang="EN-CA">My original statement was to
point out how the increase in ambient room
temperature had changed the turn-down
performance of the stove. This is an
important topic if the stove principles are
going to have any effect in hot tropical
countries. If you can comment on this I
would be happy to learn from your
experience, but please stop hijacking my
posts and misdirecting attention to cater to
your agenda against the current test
methods. Start your own thread if that is
what you want to talk about.</span><span lang="EN-CA"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Arial','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt" lang="EN-CA">All,</span><span lang="EN-CA"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Arial','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt" lang="EN-CA">I will be happy to answer
questions about the burning abilities and
tecniques of our stove and combustor.</span><span lang="EN-CA"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Arial','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt" lang="EN-CA">Kirk</span><span lang="EN-CA"></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:black 1.5pt solid;PADDING-BOTTOM:0cm;MARGIN:5pt 0cm 5pt 3.75pt;PADDING-LEFT:4pt;PADDING-RIGHT:0cm;BORDER-TOP:medium none;BORDER-RIGHT:medium none;PADDING-TOP:0cm">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Arial','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt" lang="EN-CA">----- Original Message -----
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p style="BACKGROUND:#e4e4e4" class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Arial','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt" lang="EN-CA">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Arial','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt" lang="EN-CA"> <a title="crispinpigott@outlook.com" href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" target="_blank">Crispin Pemberton-Pigott</a>
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Arial','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt" lang="EN-CA">To:</span></b><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Arial','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt" lang="EN-CA"> <a title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">'Discussion
of biomass cooking stoves'</a> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Arial','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt" lang="EN-CA">Sent:</span></b><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Arial','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt" lang="EN-CA"> Monday, May 30, 2016 9:40 PM</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Arial','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt" lang="EN-CA">Subject:</span></b><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Arial','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt" lang="EN-CA"> Re: [Stoves] stove test</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt" lang="EN-CA">Dear Kirk</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt" lang="EN-CA"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt" lang="EN-CA">></span><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Arial','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt" lang="EN-CA"> With the support of Aprovecho
Research Center, I (actually we) have
developed a very good, clean burning
TLUD-ND. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt" lang="EN-CA"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt" lang="EN-CA">I think you have done exactly
that. Good on you.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt" lang="EN-CA"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt" lang="EN-CA">There is no misdirection at all
here. You are past the verge of changing the
stove’s superior performance in order to get
a better rating on an invalid metric. It is
that simple. Don’t get sucked into that
trap. When you are getting results as good
as you are, there are new opportunities to
go wrong. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt" lang="EN-CA"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt" lang="EN-CA">The only ‘misdirection’ has
been supplied for years by test methods that
guided people to edit their stoves to meet
spurious requirements that did not bear
directly on performance, or worse, actually
penalised stoves for their superior
performance. A good example is attached.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt" lang="EN-CA"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt" lang="EN-CA">This is not something new in
the stove community. Here is a quote from
the attached Aprovecho document from 2003:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt" lang="EN-CA"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt" lang="EN-CA">“Why was the good advice, by
established experts in the field,
represented in the VITA International
Standard test, the result of several well
funded international conferences, obscure
in 2003? Both the Indian and Chinese
governments developed tests of their own
widening the scope of PHU to include
power, rate of evaporation, time. Visser
(2003) published a version of a water
boiling test based on efficiency and
appropriate power for boiling and
simmering. What motivated this parallel
activity? Why isn’t the VITA test in more
general use?”</span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt" lang="EN-CA"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt" lang="EN-CA">One reason the VITA test was
not more popular was it had several
conceptual errors and a few really poor
metrics that gave mis-directing outputs. One
is the efficiency of simmering, another is
the concept of specific fuel consumption for
simmering. Another was the idea of an
‘average efficiency’ meaning an ‘average
thermal efficiency’. I believe from my
research that the specific fuel consumption
for simmering and the average efficiency
were both introduced by Baldwin in 1986 or
so, before his book came out. Neither are
acceptable metrics.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt" lang="EN-CA"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt" lang="EN-CA">The document refers to the VITA
test the ‘international standard’ which is
not supported by the evidence. Three or four
minor parties agreed to it and it was never
used by the major markets in India and
China. Even Eindhoven University didn’t use
it and they were a party to drafting it.
India pretty much adopted the minority
position taken by KK Prasad from Eindhoven
and built that into their 1991 test. The
Chinese test from that era was very similar.
India, interestingly, produced a list of 28
standard sizes of cooking pot which is a
record, I believe!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt" lang="EN-CA"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt" lang="EN-CA">The long-forgotten organisation
Bois de Feu had a clear understanding of
these issues and had a test method in 1982
that didn’t have these problems. They
treated the simmering phase very carefully
(and differently). Prasad (and Visser who
was his student) developed multiple test
methods over the years. Piet Visser and I
created one in Malawi in about 2007 which
later evolved into the ProBEC Test for heat
transfer efficiency which is now a SeTAR
SOP, currently v1.05 (SeTAR is an
independently managed continuation of the 13
year long GIZ/ProBEC project). It doesn’t
really predict performance, it gives a
real-time heat transfer efficiency report
under varying conditions. It is very easy to
perform and it supports pot-swapping,
similar to the Indian protocol.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt" lang="EN-CA"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt" lang="EN-CA">So, ladies and gentlemen, there
are no Tier 4 stoves. That achievement will
have to wait for the development of
appropriate, valid low power metrics and one
will need an equipment set capable of
quantifying the result.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt" lang="EN-CA"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt" lang="EN-CA">Kirk: don’t be bamboozled. You
are doing good work. Nothing is perfectly
correct. Independent investigation of truth
is still required.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt" lang="EN-CA"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt" lang="EN-CA">Best wishes</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt" lang="EN-CA">Crispin</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt" lang="EN-CA"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt" lang="EN-CA"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Arial','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt" lang="EN-CA">All,</span><span lang="EN-CA"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Arial','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt" lang="EN-CA">With the support of Aprovecho
Research Center, I (actually we) have
developed a very good, clean burning
TLUD-ND. This is real and proven and no
amount of misdirection can change that.
It will be at Aprovecho for stove camp for
all to examine, and I will be giving
a presentation on how it burns so clean.</span><span lang="EN-CA"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Arial','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt" lang="EN-CA">Respectfully,</span><span lang="EN-CA"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Arial','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt" lang="EN-CA">Kirk</span><span lang="EN-CA"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-CA"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Arial','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt" lang="EN-CA">Santa Rosa, CA. USA</span><span lang="EN-CA"></span></p>
</div>
<div style="TEXT-ALIGN:center" class="MsoNormal" align="center"><span lang="EN-CA">
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Version: 2016.0.7598 / Virus Database: 4591/12332
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<fieldset></fieldset>
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<pre>_______________________________________________
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