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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-CA link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Dear Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Great message both in <b>in</b>tent and <b>con</b>tent.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The difficulty of getting numerical performance for a stove that is relevant to the stove selection process (really, it is a pre-selection process) is underestimated. This is in part because the tech-heads have dominated the stove development process, especially chasing heat transfer efficiency and fuel savings at the expense of all other functions.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I almost said ‘most other functions’ but I can live with ‘all’ for discussion purposes.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Too much has been sacrificed for ‘good’ performance, good in the opinion the tech-heads.</span></b><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>So the soc-heads (social science bods) have been protesting for years. What is important about the Indonesian CSI Pilot was that the engineering and social science teams created new methods of evaluation <i>in the lab</i> that are far better predictors of acceptance and actual performance without reducing everything to thumb-suck opinions about ‘what people want’. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>The cooking power, degree of control and cooking power per pot size dominate the acceptance of a stove. All these can be reduced to numbers obtainable in a lab setting. Additional metrics are ignition time to high power, working life, cost, and long term cost. Numbers are assignable.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Indonesian rural women are much more concerned about safety than anywhere I have been in Africa. In fact their expectations are far more constrained about surface temperature than anywhere else I have been. This can be reduced to a number.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>So the proper blending of the anthropological survey information (not a sociological mass survey) has provided a really good impetus to this new approach where the benefits of a stove undergoing a pre-selection process can be realistically assessed before hitting the (much more expensive) focus group practice sessions.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>For the numbers, not many require additional measurements. We have had most of the data all along. What we did with the CSI method was form the test method around the required outputs, without those required outputs being established by taking a fresh look at the market as seen through the eyes of stove promoters, not designers.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Crispin<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal>Crispin, Kirk and all,<br><br>Subject Line changed to reflect the change in the Subject. This is NOT about Kirk's stove, but about DATA about stoves being used for stove selection.<br><br>Crispin's message (below) raises TOO MANY questions about the SPECIFICS OF stove test data. Instead, this message/topic is about what is actually done when selecting stoves that would be put into the market in a project. It is not about the household or cook selecting a stove from the several choices in the market or project. It is about project leaders and scientists examining stove characteristics when making selections.<br><br>My contention is that the numbers (data) do not matter all that much. There are simply too many variables, so "perceptual averages" (or generalities) come into the process. One example is from (IMO = in my opinion) one of the best selection efforts that use data, the large project in Indonesia. It created a 3-star qualitative system to examine (I believe) 3 major characteristics (like emissions, efficiency......). Really great implementation of a rating system linked to financial assistance for stove purchases. [[[ The much discussed Tier 0-to-4 system has not been used in a similar way, as far as I know, even though there is a stove database that gathers such data. ]]]<br><br>But even with those stars, in the end the factors of cost and attractiveness and convience of use and fuel issues can simply overwhelm the "data" approach. <br><br>So I say (mainly to Crispin, but to all), the three numbers for fire-power can be used as indicators, if used at all. The "devil in the details" (such as moisture content of the fuel, and including or excluding time and fuel during ignition time, etc.) simply blow away the data themselves. In other words, even with all of the fullest calculations possible, words such as "6 kW firepower" simply mean that this combustion arrangement "can really put out some heat." From that generality, stove designers work with pot placement, skirts, plancha vs direct flame to pot, size changes, etc etc etc.<br><br>For some readers (and project leaders, etc.), this message is terrible because it diminishes the importance of data (and some related employment and budgets). Others see it as "that's what I do." Others say "so what? Not interested. Already have too much invested in my stove and factory, so I ignore the data evaluations." <br><br>For stove INNOVATORS like Kirk Harris who are making experimental units, getting test results are extremely important to fine-tune the improvements so that we do (and should) pay attention to new developments. <br><br>But in the end, the data do not mean acceptance or rejection of a manufactured line of stoves. Marketing overwhelms stove science. So do cost and conveinece, etc.<br><br>Paul<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 6/9/2016 7:01 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Dear Kirk and Paul</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>There were three numbers provided for power, the low the high and the test-high.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>It was mentioned that there was a scale under the stove (which is a very good idea) and that readings were taken per 5 minutes (which is a pretty long interval).</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Was the high power a maximum during the test phase, or the average over the phase? If it was the average then it should be presented like that because the phase includes an ignition. If it is the maximum firepower, that would not be the average including ignition.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>If I say an electric stove has a 5 kW element, that is the maximum input power. The cooking power is the input power times the heat transfer efficiency. That is pretty straightforward.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>So I wondered if the scale readings were used to determine the maximum power by using the burn rate, or if the power was determined in some other way. If it was scale-based, it means it is the average of the 5 minute intervals. If it was based on the scale, what energy content was applied? Was it the WBT sheet LHV (compensated for moisture? Was it the As Received, Ash-Free heating value? Was that value char-remaining-compensated to correct for the energy not released? </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The determination of the firepower of a stove is not nearly as easy as getting the cooking power, which in any case is what people experience when they use it.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>At the moment I do not have a clear picture of what that 6 kW refers to, and as mentioned already, we don’t know the cooking power (delivered energy). Planning to introduce a design to a certain area will require taking a pretty good guess that the product is in the right cooking power range.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Because we don’t’ have the test spreadsheet with all the input numbers it is hard to know these answers, hence all the questions.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Dr Nurhuda provided a photo of a pot as proof that the PM is low for his latest stove. That is not a ‘test result’ in the numerical sense, but we can assume it must be pretty good.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Kirk provided some numbers from a WBT conducted at Aprovecho, which have emissions per MJ and per unit time etc. But we don’t have the numbers for the total MJ or the total time so we can’t tell a whole bunch of things we need to know to evaluate the performance or suitability. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The best we could do is to share the official test spreadsheet so the missing metrics are available to those who need them. I cannot select a stove design based on an emissions per MJ if I don’t know how many MJ it is capable of delivering. I can <i>rate</i> a stove I have already selected using that metric.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I can’t select a stove design based on a heat transfer efficiency if I don’t know how much heat was involved. Similarly, the firepower combined with other metrics could be used to determine cooking capabilities but only if I am quite sure what that firepower number refers to: peak, average, smoothed 3-minute peak, and so on. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>What do we want to know?<br>Cooking power total.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Cooking power per sq cm.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>System efficiency for some known and relevant task, expressed as the “Energy Efficiency”</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Fuel flexibility.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Cost.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Durability.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Pot holding capacity.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Pot stability (when stirring).</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Tilt stability.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>PM mass per delivered MJ (used together with the cooking power)</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>CO mass per delivered MJ (ditto)</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Note: the Energy efficiency is used as a proxy for relative fuel consumption to compare stoves. Very importantly, it must not refer to the heat transfer efficiency or any proxy of it. That is an internal relationship, and we want the black box version of the fuel consumption.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Most of these numbers can be calculated from the information recorded in a WBT spreadsheet.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Regards</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Crispin</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>