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Kirk,<br>
<br>
Your replies to Andrew and to me were very helpful. <br>
<br>
Your new diagram (I hope everyone is selecting to see the drawings)
prompts some comments:<br>
<br>
1. Under the lower plate that holds the fuel in the Rocket stove,
there is also some air entering that will have a secondary
function. But the concept and intention is to minimize that
secondary air, so showing it (maybe with a dashed blue arrow) is
optional.<br>
<br>
2. What is informative in your diagram is the use of red arrows.
As you wrote to Andrew, in the area of the red arrows you have
several different gases competing for the space to get through the
slots in the new mixer shelf. As you wrote:
<blockquote type="cite"><font face="Arial" size="2">The mixer
reduces the quantity of primary air needed from under the
[Rocket] shelf. Too much blows the flame out the mouth of the
stove. </font></blockquote>
In Rocket language, the exposed ends of the stick fuel (over the
Rocket grate) are getting primary air which you could want to
restrict, that is, to have a deficiency of primary air, resulting in
heat for pyrolysis but not much secondary air. This MIGHT mean
that the air entering under the "fuel shelf" (which has a grate at
the interior end) MIGHT be progressively cut back by using a door or
other controller. Such control has not been done on Rocket stoves,
as far as I know. This action would be enhancing the pyrolytic
activity, and is akin to (but not the same as) limiting the air in a
TLUD. (Remember that Rocket stoves require the advancement of the
stick fuel into the area over the grate of the fuel shelf.)<br>
<br>
3. Continuing: The red arrows involve the pyrolytic gases, any
excess oxygen, N2, and the air that is entering alongside and above
the stick fuel. That new air is coming in from one side only (but
that could be changed if merited). Some of that is primary
(reaching raw and torrified fuel). And some is secondary
(combusting some of the created gases). **** Realization:
Therefore it is of little consequence that some air UNDER the fuel
shelf would "survive" to become secondary burning in the red zone,
quite similar to the incoming (blue arrow) secondary air alongside
the entering fuel.<br>
<br>
NOTE: In case it is not obvious, there is no structural
(device-related) separation of the air as primary or secondary.
Some of the O2 molecules end up with a primary function (supporting
pyrolysis of the biomass) and others with a secondary function
(supporting combustion of the gases). And some of the O2 could be
consumed in char-gasification. <br>
<br>
4. Continuing: The slot restrictions of the mixer plate result in
a large surface area of the rising (red arrow) "stuff" to come into
contact with the air (O2) on the top side of the mixer. GREAT!!!<br>
<br>
5. I suggest another color (orange??) for a spiral of lines through
the stationary blades and upward a short distance, indicating the
zone for the <u>time </u>of combustion to become more complete.
And that transitions into some other color (or dashed lines??) to
show the rise of the heat and emissions gases (to be quite clean
mainly as CO2 and H2O and N2 ) that contact the cooking pot.<br>
<br>
6. I question one part of this generalized drawing, and it suggests
an issue that could merit experimental research. Above the green
mixer plate, there are five each of red and blue arrows showing the
flows through the slots. The 4 arrows (2 red and 2 blue) on the
right side are coming up under the stove body, not under the static
blades in the vertical shaft (a pre-pot chimney or riser).
Subject to experimental results, perhaps there should only be
slits/slots under the blades. This also means that the diameter of
the vertical shaft / riser could become more important relating to
the thermal power of the stove.<br>
<br>
7. It is evident that the entry of the secondary air above the
mixer plate could be controlled, such as by an entry door.
Experiments could even use a small fan to force that air (checking
on impact on emissions).<br>
<br>
8. But there remains the opening through which the fuel is being
fed into the stove. With a few exceptions, Rocket stoves do not
attempt to restrict (or block) the entry of the air entering
along-side the wood. And different amounts of fuel will impact the
amounts of air that can enter. The net result is less control over
the processes. <br>
<br>
9. However, imagine that the fuel entry was with a door to close,
and that the fuel could be advanced horizontally inward via some
mechanism (spring action, gravity on a slope, a horizontal "plunger
with a rod or handle" to push the fuel manually, etc.). In that
case, the entire unit is essentially "sealed" except for the
controllable air under the fuel shelf and above the mixer plate. It
is becoming closer and closer to being a gasifier with controlled
creation of the gases and controlled combustion of the gases a
(short) distance and time from where the gases are created. In that
case it would be sufficiently different from a Rocket stove so that
it could merit a different name for the technology. And I suspect
that somewhere in the 150 years (or more) of gasifier development
there might have been such a device made, but it certainly would not
have been for a cookstove, but instead being much larger in both
physical size and heat output. [BTW, industrial large units are
generally easier to make functional than units small enough for
households.]<br>
<br>
Kirk, I think you are on to something. Please keep us informed of
your progress, whichever directions you choose to take your
actions. We all hope that others will participate, also. <br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/23/2016 2:39 AM, kgharris wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:23F365EDF4254F43B86FA44C0B888FC0@phyllisPC"
type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<meta name="GENERATOR" content="MSHTML 9.00.8112.16800">
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Paul,</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Thank you for the response,
suggestions and questions.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">1. The mixer is shaped to fit
snugly into the stove. Air also mixes with any gas that leaks
around the edges. It is like having another slot around the
edge. </font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">The folks at Aprovecho did like
the overall mixer idea. </font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">2. The sketch was very basic,
just to show the mixer principle. Yes the shelf is still
there. The mixer reduces the quantity of primary air needed
from under the shelf. To much blows the flame out the mouth
of the stove. The reduced primary air is shown in the
attached updated drawing with a smaller arrow. This may end
up not being a rocket stove, or being a distant variation of
the rocket stove.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">3. I added split arrows to the
drawing to show the primary and secondary air coming from the
same source as you describe. The flame is rich with wood gas,
which is why the mixer could help. Air control is another
challenge, perhaps less important if the mixing system can
handle large power variations. This is true in the Wonderwerk
TLUD, the mixing system can handle both high and low
power levels and no secondary air control is needed.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Kirk H.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT:
5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color:
black"><b>From:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="psanders@ilstu.edu" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">Paul
Anderson</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of
biomass cooking stoves</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September
22, 2016 8:14 AM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] Stove
talk - Rocket mixing</div>
<div><br>
</div>
Kirk,<br>
<br>
Nice!!!! Very "Kirk-wellian" or "Harris-oniam". (And those
are compliments!!!).<br>
<br>
1, You might want to try having more of the "nose" (innermost
part of the secondary air shelf) to be blocked off to force even
more of the flame nearer the center. There are so many ways to
modify what you have caught as a concept. And I know that you
do those modifications so well and with good observations of the
results. I am sure that this is of GREAT interest to Aprovecho
and all who have worked so hard regarding Rocket stove
technology and dissemination.<br>
<br>
2. Your drawing does not show the standard shelf and grate of
the classic Rocket stove. Please confirm it that shelf is still
in the design (I think that it probably should be.) Removing
that shelf would remove the most fundamental characteristic of
Rocket technology.<br>
<br>
3. Your drawing does not acknowledge that the air entering
under your secondary air shelf has BOTH primary and secondary
combustion functions (because some of the created pyrolytic
gases are being burned with the surplus of air that is
entering. Very difficult to gain additional control over the
air flows, (and why Rocket stoves are not gasifiers, which have
gas production and gas combustion sufficiently separate to have
control over both.) How could you change your drawing to
illustrate this? <br>
<br>
Looking forward to your next report.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/22/2016 2:02 AM, kgharris
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:45212F41382043FBB74CF87A3FA4B73F@phyllisPC"
type="cite">
<meta name="GENERATOR" content="MSHTML 9.00.8112.16800">
<style></style>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">All,</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">There has been a lot of
negativity on the list lately which Ron has been
addressing. I don't want to get caught up in this</font><font
face="Arial" size="2">. I would prefer to contribute
stove talk to the list that suits my interests.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">To this end I have attached
some photos of one of my current projects, using in a
rocket stove the rapid mixing techniques which make the
Wonderwerk TLUD-ND stove very clean burning. This project
is just getting started and so the technique is not yet
developed. It will hopefully be interesting for the
members on the list.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Kirk H.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>----- Original Message ----- </div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid;
PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px;
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4;
font-color: black"><b>From:</b> <a
title="rongretlarson@comcast.net"
href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">Ronal W. Larson</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a
title="miata98@gmail.com"
href="mailto:miata98@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true">miata98@gmail.com</a>
</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Cc:</b> <a
title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Discussion of biomass</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday,
September 21, 2016 10:22 PM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves]
WHO's for whom? For what?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Nikhil cc List</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre" class="Apple-tab-span"></span>You
continue to miss the point. At this site: <a
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a>,
the first line reads:</div>
<div><span style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; WIDOWS: 2;
BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); FONT-FAMILY: Times;
ORPHANS: 2; FONT-SIZE: medium; font-variant-ligatures:
normal"><i>This discussion is provided to help people
develop better stoves for <u><b>cooking</b></u> with
<u><b>biomass</b></u> fuels in <u><b>developing</b></u>
regions. </i></span></div>
<div><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre" class="Apple-tab-span"></span>The
key words are cooking, biomass, developing. Your message
below addresses none of these. Repeat NONE. Your
photograph proves the same - a waste of bandwidth.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre" class="Apple-tab-span"></span>If
you wish to talk about <i>“fuel ideologies”</i> (your
last two words)- I think it best you find another list.
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre" class="Apple-tab-span"></span>I
find it insulting to many when you use terms like <i>“abuse of
science”, “spurious theories”, “concocted data”,
"volunteered blindness” and “saviors…market ADALYs</i>”
- none with any semblance of an example. I cannot recall
any such negative writing by anyone that is so devoid of
proof.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre" class="Apple-tab-span"></span>The
purpose of the ISO work (insulting to call it an exercise)
is to get real numbers - the basis of science - to develop
improved stoves. I challenge you to say what you dislike
about that ISO work - into which a lot of smart people
have put a lot of effort. My belief is that you know
nothing about the ISO subject you are disparaging. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre" class="Apple-tab-span"></span>Please
prove me wrong by being specific on your “positive”
suggestion; just one example of what the experts did
wrong with the ISO work (what you termed “insane.”…)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Ron</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Sep 21, 2016, at 10:36 PM, Traveller <<a
href="mailto:miata98@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">miata98@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Rnn: <br>
<br>
Thank you. I have been busy looking for woodstove
shops on Cape Cod. None. <br>
<br>
I was as disappointed as you are with me. I found
some kitchens with - egad, ventilator fans!! <br>
<br>
What has come of EPA and MASSDEP?? Restaurants with
foreign food - Portuguese, Chinese (Trump alert!)
- are polluting the outside air, the pristine air of
Provincetown! (Pictures attached). <br>
<br>
Where are WHO and EPA modeling emission rates and
concentrations over the Atlantic, the east coast of
US and Canada? At $9 million per saved statistical
life, it's a crime that our dear Global Alliance and
Global modelers of premature mortality are ignoring
the lives of say, Nantucket residents (median family
income $90,000+)? <br>
<br>
****<br>
What soured me on what is marketed as science? Well,
the marketing. Of spurious theories and concocted
data. <br>
<br>
But that is ok. Science evolves. New paradigms
emerge. Science struggles through. <br>
<br>
What stinks to high heaven, however, is the abuse of
science by the advocates, the saviors of the poor
ready to market ADALYs. <br>
<br>
I don't celebrate my ignorance. I do object to
volunteered blindness. <br>
<br>
I have a single positive suggestion -- dump the ISO
exercise. Get out of the box mentality, look at the
cook and food, not fuel ideologies. <br>
<br>
Nikhil<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div>
<div class="gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at
12:04 AM, Ronal W. Larson <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid;
MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class="gmail_quote">
<div style="WORD-WRAP: break-word">
<div>Nikhil, cc list</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre-wrap"></span>I
apologize for not responding sooner. Been
busy.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre-wrap"></span>I
find your response below to be most
disappointing. It is clear that you have
no use for WHO, EPA, GACC, Michael Johnson
- and essentially no-one on this list -
many/most of whom have put in many years
in trying to develop cleaner, fuel-saving
stoves. I have no idea on what has soured
you on science.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre-wrap"></span>Dr. Michael
Johnson, who was the key presenter in this
webinar had been asked to develop a
methodology to help countries solve indoor
air pollution problems - that included
stoves but was for more than stoves. I
thought his work was outstanding; he
answered an important question that many
of are interested in. It is clear you
had/have no idea of what either he nor WHO
is trying to do.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre-wrap"></span>I
have not seen you give one single positive
idea from you about helping the aim of
this list. Your satire leaves me cold.
Your humor leaves me cold.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre-wrap"></span>I
ask that you stick to the topic of this
list - which does not include supporting
the use of coal or ridiculing those who
are concerned about global warming. It
does not include giving advice such as
your last line:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
georgia,serif;
FONT-SIZE: 12px"><i>The
rest is blogal noise
of vested interests
who know nothing
about the poor, nor
care. </i></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<span style="WHITE-SPACE: pre-wrap"></span></span>I
have read nothing by you that gives you
the right to be so insulting to very
bright and highly motivated scientists
like Dr. Johnson - or most on this list.
It is clear too me that you know nothing
about the poor yourself, nor about stoves.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Ron</div>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div><br>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Sep 14, 2016, at 2:51 PM,
Traveller <<a
href="mailto:miata98@gmail.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">miata98@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr"><font
face="georgia,
serif">Ron had
asked us all "</font><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">I
suggest waiting until after
this </span><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">webinar</span><span
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px"> to
answer your questions about
WHO and stoves."</span>
<div><font face="georgia, serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face="georgia, serif">There
was no mention of Daniel
Wilson's ES&T paper. <br>
</font></div>
<div><font face="georgia, serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face="georgia, serif">I
watched much of the Webinar.
It was quite an
entertainment. Comedy.
Tragedy. Horror. Drama.
Action. </font><br
clear="all">
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
georgia,serif;
FONT-SIZE: 12px"><br>
I am not
enlightened. Can
anybody tell me if
s/he was able to
find light - or
heat? <br>
<br>
Priesthood of any
sect/cult narrates
platitudes around
which questions
can or cannot be
asked and
answered. </span></div>
<div><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
georgia,serif;
FONT-SIZE: 12px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
georgia,serif;
FONT-SIZE: 12px">I
don't remember any
mention of that
four-letter word
FOOD. <br>
<br>
A stove can do
many things - the
glass top electric
ranges are as good
as a table top. <br>
<br>
And a stove can
get dirty in a
myriad of ways.
Cooking IS dirty;
just ask anybody
who has had to
clean a stove or a
kitchen. <br>
<br>
But we have most
Quixotic
adventurers,
tilting at the
windmills, in
search of "clean
air". Via box
models. Clean
kitchen or clean
food - or the
quality of food -
are assumed to be
irrelevant to the
question of
cooking and
health. <br>
<br>
Find your little
sandbox and play.
Let someone else
bother about food
and health. <br>
<br>
-------------<br>
<br>
WHO will save the
people? <br>
<br>
Not WHO. <br>
<br>
My humble (!)
suggestion to
well-meaning stove
designers: Avoid
and ignore
advocates' deceit
and pretense of
knowledge. Don't
insult the pursuit
of knowledge -
with all the
qualifiers about
assumptions and
uncertainties that
researchers do
emphasize but the
ritual of
cite-o-logy
ignores. It is
unethical to be
guided by
unconvincing
science just
because it is done
by scientists. <br>
<br>
What is to be
done? a) Keep on
innovating for
specific
geographic
markets,
considering a
variety of fuels
and appliances,
focusing first and
foremost on "cook
food"; b)
Formulate your
ideas of market
size and timing;
c) Understand your
customers' desires
but also keep in
mind that desires
and needs are
pliable and change
in response to
factors beyond
your control; can
you make just a
fifth of the
customers in a
particular
geographic market
adapt your
stove/fuel
solution
enthusiastically?
If anybody comes
to buy a second
stove - even if
the first one is
virtually given
away - that's the
proof of your
design. d) Yes,
emissions,
exposures, fuel
consumption, time
taken to cook, are
all relevant to
customers, but you
really don't know
who weighs what
more than others,
and what other
things (fuel cycle
management
drudgery) <br>
<br>
</span><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
georgia,serif;
FONT-SIZE: 12px">The
rest is blogal
noise of vested
interests who know
nothing about the
poor, nor care. </span><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: georgia,serif; FONT-SIZE: 12px"><br>
<br>
Nikhil<br>
<br>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<span id="cid:F13158E2-EE55-490D-8D97-D1D86851C243"><photo
2.JPG></span><span
id="cid:3D627C6C-347B-4CFB-A660-968440E9B55F"><photo
1.JPG></span></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
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<p avgcert??="" color="#000000" align="left">No virus found
in this message.<br>
Checked by AVG - <a href="http://www.avg.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.avg.com</a><br>
Version: 2016.0.7797 / Virus Database: 4656/13061 -
Release Date: 09/22/16</p>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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<p> </p>
<hr>
<p avgcert??="" color="#000000" align="left">No virus found in
this message.<br>
Checked by AVG - <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</a><br>
Version: 2016.0.7797 / Virus Database: 4656/13061 - Release
Date: 09/22/16</p>
</blockquote>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a>
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