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Crispin (and Nikhil),<br>
<br>
1. "Clean stoves" and "clean fuels" are not oxymorons any more than
"happy housewife" would be. <br>
<br>
2. You wrote:
<blockquote type="cite"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Unlike
most of us here, he [Nikhil] has been in the trenches in
Washington at a high level for decades and knows how the system
is manipulated to generate funding by popularising the latest
fad. </span></blockquote>
I did not know of his credentials. This is probably a good time to
generate some credibility. Easiest might be to post a resume, but a
short description might be sufficient.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/27/2016 10:47 AM, Crispin
Pemberton-Pigott wrote:<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Dear
Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I
think Nikhil’s complaint is that the concepts of ‘clean
fuels’ or ‘clean stoves’ are oxymorons. There is no such
thing on either score.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">As
you are well aware, and have demonstrated in person, if a
‘clean TLUD gasifier’ goes wrong, there is a huge amount of
smoke coming out until it is re-lit. So it is only clean
under certain circumstances and with certain fuels, perhaps
even only a certain <i>size</i> of fuel. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Nikhil
seems to be calling ‘BS’ on the alarmist thing when that
alarmist thing is supported by vapourware and numerical
puffery. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Unlike
most of us here, he has been in the trenches in Washington
at a high level for decades and knows how the system is
manipulated to generate funding by popularising the latest
fad. I guess there is some merit is saying ‘that is how it
works’ at least these days, but it does not compensate for
the deliberate misrepresentation of facts in order to scare
people into handing over the piggy bank.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">It
seems everyone but everyone in this field is aware that only
a combination of operator, fuel and product has an
assessable ‘emission’ or ‘fuel’ metric. So let’s not beat
around that bush. The forecasts (of which there are very
few) of future impact on the public, especially public
health or the destruction of forests which are the two major
topics in regulations and project documents, have not been
very accurate. The prediction to the Ulaanbaatar government
that their air quality would continue to get worse if they
didn’t ‘ban the burning of raw coal completely’ was a major
forecast of doom. The population of the city grew faster
than expected, the expansion of burning raw coal expanded,
the stoves were replaced with ‘middling’ technical features
and the air quality improved more than the scenario that
required they ‘ban coal completely and replace everything
with ‘clean fuels’.’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The
emergence of Rwanda as a charcoal-sustainable country while
continuing not to ban charcoal as the primary cooking fuel –
even in the absence of any substantive stove replacement
programme – is another example of failed calamitous
prediction. Everyone knows we are supposed to decry charcoal
as a cause of blah-blah-blah. Now we have in Laos a wide
scape roll out of the lighting cone (SNV) that reduces
emissions dramatically, saves fuel and is cheap. No change
in the stove at all. Nor the fuel. Next they can follow in
the footsteps in Rwanda and produce enough fuel on private
farms to feed the need.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">We
have not talked about Chad (I think) and how they turned
their charcoal industry into a profitable, sustainable
enterprise owned by the communities. That is another amazing
example of how changing the administration of fuel can
create wealth and jobs and sustainable biofuel. It didn’t
require the change of stove or fuel or people. Just how they
worked together.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">There
is a lot of room for self- examination here. Nikhil is on
the right track with this modelling of health impacts. He,
unlike most of us, understands the health modeling field
very well. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Caution
is advised<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Crispin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Nikhil,<br>
<br>
Your message is based on playing with words, trying to make
"Clean Cookstoves" into a silly term because there can be fuel
issues. Of course there are fuel issues and stove issues.
That does not make the topic silly.<br>
<br>
If this was just silly stuff, I would not have spent 15 years
of my life helping to bring TLUD stoves to the top of the
solid biomass stoves. <br>
<br>
If you think that clean cookstoves are silly and not
important, then you are writing to the wrong group of people.
<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Website: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 9/27/2016 9:13 AM, Traveller wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Teddy:<br>
<br>
Thank you. That news item has great relevance to this
list. <br>
<br>
There are no "clean car engines" per se; their alleged
cleanness or "emission rates" depend on fuel quality. <br>
<br>
Which is why "Clean Cookstoves" - global alliances or
blogal dalliances - is a silly term. <br>
<br>
There are no "clean cookstoves" per se; only in
combination with fuels, and in the context of operating
practices and local environment (ventilation, wind,
ambient air quality, other sources of emissions ranging
from food and smoking to open waste.) <br>
<br>
The scientist collective at the ISO 2012 IWA on cookstoves
(<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.iso.org/obp/ui/#iso:std:iso:iwa:11:ed-1:v1:en"
target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9.5pt">Guidelines
for evaluating cookstove performance</span></a><span
style="font-size:9.5pt">) <br>
<br>
""</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">recognizes
that the quality and type of fuel used by a testing
centre may impact the emissions of a cookstove. Because
of that, the International Workshop on Cookstoves
recommends that testing centres document the key
physical and operational characteristics (e.g. fuel,
moisture content, pot size and shape) of the system."</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:9.5pt">Whatever
little I know suggests that temperatures
and air flows determine the ratio and
composition of PICs and that at
relatively low temperatures and
irregular air flows, fuel chemistry
plays a critical role. But there's
nothing here about chemical composition.<br>
<br>
Is it any wonder folks go mumbling about
"solid fuels", "dirty fuels"? (More on
that later.)</span><br>
<br>
WHO/GBD claims on the "global dataset for
cooking fuel use" are bubbly champagne -
or dope - served up to minors. (Remember
the song "Goodnight, farewell" in Sound of
Music where Liesel asks for her first
taste of champagne?)<br>
<br>
Let me put it bluntly - WHO has
manufactured a "global emergency" based on
non-existent data and questionable
intelligence. (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/10665/204717/1/9789241565233_eng.pdf">Burning
Opportunity</a>, marketing the GBD
adventure of killing by assumption as a <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.ccacoalition.org/en/news/new-who-report-household-air-pollution-driving-global-health-emergency">global
health emergency</a>) <br>
<br>
Clean Cookstoves are dirty business. <br>
<br>
I for one do not believe one needs
convincing evidence to act on reducing
pollution exposures of vulnerable
populations. The challenge is not
compiling reams and reams of dubious data
and faulty forecasts - of YLD and YLL -
but to please the cooks. <br>
<br>
Ron here thinks I have soured on science.
Living in Washington, I am familiar with
the politics of science and the science of
politics. What is going on is corrupting
intelligence. There is an emergency in
"global health", namely, it has little to
do with individual health. <br>
<br>
Nikhil<br>
<span
style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif"><br>
<br>
---------</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif">(India
+91) 909 995 2080</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 8:16 AM,
Cookswell Jikos <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cookswelljikos@gmail.com"
target="_blank">cookswelljikos@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">What a story....similar to this
gem is a story in todays newspaper regarding air
pollution from bad fuel rejected by the EU and
dumped in the African market - <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">''<span
style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#666666">The
high-sulphur fuels also have a knock-on
effect, rapidly destroying emission-reducing
technologies in vehicles, according to Rob de
Jong, the head of the UNEP transport
programme. “So if you buy a vehicle that’s a
couple of years old and import it into some of
the African countries, the technology in there
– sensors and filters – all gets spoilt, and
these cars, which are potentially very clean,
are destroyed in a couple of tanks, and for
the next 20 years will be belching smoke. It’s
important to understand the tragedy of this,”
he said. This in turn increases emissions of
fine particulate matter, which can lodge deep
in the lungs, causing cancers and other health
problems.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#666666">Read
more at: </span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/business/article/2000217548/dirty-diesel-rejected-in-europe-exported-to-africa"
target="_blank"><span
style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#337AB7;text-decoration:none">http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/business/article/2000217548/dirty-diesel-rejected-in-europe-exported-to-africa</span></a>''
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I certainly hope something
like this cannot happen with LPG cooking gas or
that all those generators in Lagos and Accra are
not pumping smoke into the kitchens with
induction stoves :(<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Teddy <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Cookswell Jikos</b><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.cookswell.co.ke"
target="_blank">www.cookswell.co.ke</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.facebook.com/CookswellJikos"
target="_blank">www.facebook.com/CookswellJikos</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.kenyacharcoal.blogspot.com"
target="_blank">www.kenyacharcoal.blogspot.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Mobile: +254 700 380
009 <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Mobile: +254 700 905
913<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">P.O. Box 1433, Nairobi
00606, Kenya<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img
moz-do-not-send="true"
style="width:.7395in;height:1.0in"
id="_x0000_i1025"
src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-mFnK50B4oS8/UUrgJle8z9I/AAAAAAAAB_o/OUjLd7wrKPg/s133/Cookswell+Logo.PNG"
height="96" border="0" width="71"><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Tms
Rmn",serif;color:green">Save trees
- think twice before printing</span><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Tms
Rmn",serif;color:green">.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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