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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-CA link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Dear Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I think Nikhil’s complaint is that the concepts of ‘clean fuels’ or ‘clean stoves’ are oxymorons. There is no such thing on either score.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>As you are well aware, and have demonstrated in person, if a ‘clean TLUD gasifier’ goes wrong, there is a huge amount of smoke coming out until it is re-lit. So it is only clean under certain circumstances and with certain fuels, perhaps even only a certain <i>size</i> of fuel. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Nikhil seems to be calling ‘BS’ on the alarmist thing when that alarmist thing is supported by vapourware and numerical puffery. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Unlike most of us here, he has been in the trenches in Washington at a high level for decades and knows how the system is manipulated to generate funding by popularising the latest fad. I guess there is some merit is saying ‘that is how it works’ at least these days, but it does not compensate for the deliberate misrepresentation of facts in order to scare people into handing over the piggy bank.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>It seems everyone but everyone in this field is aware that only a combination of operator, fuel and product has an assessable ‘emission’ or ‘fuel’ metric. So let’s not beat around that bush. The forecasts (of which there are very few) of future impact on the public, especially public health or the destruction of forests which are the two major topics in regulations and project documents, have not been very accurate. The prediction to the Ulaanbaatar government that their air quality would continue to get worse if they didn’t ‘ban the burning of raw coal completely’ was a major forecast of doom. The population of the city grew faster than expected, the expansion of burning raw coal expanded, the stoves were replaced with ‘middling’ technical features and the air quality improved more than the scenario that required they ‘ban coal completely and replace everything with ‘clean fuels’.’<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The emergence of Rwanda as a charcoal-sustainable country while continuing not to ban charcoal as the primary cooking fuel – even in the absence of any substantive stove replacement programme – is another example of failed calamitous prediction. Everyone knows we are supposed to decry charcoal as a cause of blah-blah-blah. Now we have in Laos a wide scape roll out of the lighting cone (SNV) that reduces emissions dramatically, saves fuel and is cheap. No change in the stove at all. Nor the fuel. Next they can follow in the footsteps in Rwanda and produce enough fuel on private farms to feed the need.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>We have not talked about Chad (I think) and how they turned their charcoal industry into a profitable, sustainable enterprise owned by the communities. That is another amazing example of how changing the administration of fuel can create wealth and jobs and sustainable biofuel. It didn’t require the change of stove or fuel or people. Just how they worked together.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>There is a lot of room for self- examination here. Nikhil is on the right track with this modelling of health impacts. He, unlike most of us, understands the health modeling field very well. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Caution is advised<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Crispin<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Nikhil,<br><br>Your message is based on playing with words, trying to make "Clean Cookstoves" into a silly term because there can be fuel issues. Of course there are fuel issues and stove issues. That does not make the topic silly.<br><br>If this was just silly stuff, I would not have spent 15 years of my life helping to bring TLUD stoves to the top of the solid biomass stoves. <br><br>If you think that clean cookstoves are silly and not important, then you are writing to the wrong group of people. <br><br>Paul<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 9/27/2016 9:13 AM, Traveller wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>Teddy:<br><br>Thank you. That news item has great relevance to this list. <br><br>There are no "clean car engines" per se; their alleged cleanness or "emission rates" depend on fuel quality. <br><br>Which is why "Clean Cookstoves" - global alliances or blogal dalliances - is a silly term. <br><br>There are no "clean cookstoves" per se; only in combination with fuels, and in the context of operating practices and local environment (ventilation, wind, ambient air quality, other sources of emissions ranging from food and smoking to open waste.) <br><br>The scientist collective at the ISO 2012 IWA on cookstoves (<a href="https://www.iso.org/obp/ui/#iso:std:iso:iwa:11:ed-1:v1:en" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:9.5pt'>Guidelines for evaluating cookstove performance</span></a><span style='font-size:9.5pt'>) <br><br>""</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>recognizes that the quality and type of fuel used by a testing centre may impact the emissions of a cookstove. Because of that, the International Workshop on Cookstoves recommends that testing centres document the key physical and operational characteristics (e.g. fuel, moisture content, pot size and shape) of the system."</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'><br></span><span style='font-size:9.5pt'>Whatever little I know suggests that temperatures and air flows determine the ratio and composition of PICs and that at relatively low temperatures and irregular air flows, fuel chemistry plays a critical role. But there's nothing here about chemical composition.<br><br>Is it any wonder folks go mumbling about "solid fuels", "dirty fuels"? (More on that later.)</span><br><br>WHO/GBD claims on the "global dataset for cooking fuel use" are bubbly champagne - or dope - served up to minors. (Remember the song "Goodnight, farewell" in Sound of Music where Liesel asks for her first taste of champagne?)<br><br>Let me put it bluntly - WHO has manufactured a "global emergency" based on non-existent data and questionable intelligence. (<a href="http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/10665/204717/1/9789241565233_eng.pdf">Burning Opportunity</a>, marketing the GBD adventure of killing by assumption as a <a href="http://www.ccacoalition.org/en/news/new-who-report-household-air-pollution-driving-global-health-emergency">global health emergency</a>) <br><br>Clean Cookstoves are dirty business. <br><br>I for one do not believe one needs convincing evidence to act on reducing pollution exposures of vulnerable populations. The challenge is not compiling reams and reams of dubious data and faulty forecasts - of YLD and YLL - but to please the cooks. <br><br>Ron here thinks I have soured on science. Living in Washington, I am familiar with the politics of science and the science of politics. What is going on is corrupting intelligence. There is an emergency in "global health", namely, it has little to do with individual health. <br><br>Nikhil<br> <span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'><br><br>---------</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>(India +91) 909 995 2080</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 8:16 AM, Cookswell Jikos <<a href="mailto:cookswelljikos@gmail.com" target="_blank">cookswelljikos@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><p class=MsoNormal>What a story....similar to this gem is a story in todays newspaper regarding air pollution from bad fuel rejected by the EU and dumped in the African market - <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>''<span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#666666'>The high-sulphur fuels also have a knock-on effect, rapidly destroying emission-reducing technologies in vehicles, according to Rob de Jong, the head of the UNEP transport programme. “So if you buy a vehicle that’s a couple of years old and import it into some of the African countries, the technology in there – sensors and filters – all gets spoilt, and these cars, which are potentially very clean, are destroyed in a couple of tanks, and for the next 20 years will be belching smoke. It’s important to understand the tragedy of this,” he said. This in turn increases emissions of fine particulate matter, which can lodge deep in the lungs, causing cancers and other health problems.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#666666'>Read more at: </span><a href="http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/business/article/2000217548/dirty-diesel-rejected-in-europe-exported-to-africa" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#337AB7;text-decoration:none'>http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/business/article/2000217548/dirty-diesel-rejected-in-europe-exported-to-africa</span></a>'' <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I certainly hope something like this cannot happen with LPG cooking gas or that all those generators in Lagos and Accra are not pumping smoke into the kitchens with induction stoves :(<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Teddy <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b>Cookswell Jikos</b><br><a href="http://www.cookswell.co.ke" target="_blank">www.cookswell.co.ke</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://www.facebook.com/CookswellJikos" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/CookswellJikos</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://www.kenyacharcoal.blogspot.com" target="_blank">www.kenyacharcoal.blogspot.com</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Mobile: +254 700 380 009 <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Mobile: +254 700 905 913<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>P.O. Box 1433, Nairobi 00606, Kenya<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><img border=0 width=71 height=96 style='width:.7395in;height:1.0in' id="_x0000_i1025" src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-mFnK50B4oS8/UUrgJle8z9I/AAAAAAAAB_o/OUjLd7wrKPg/s133/Cookswell+Logo.PNG"><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Tms Rmn",serif;color:green'>Save trees - think twice before printing</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Tms Rmn",serif;color:green'>.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Stoves mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>