<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#351c75">Thanks Cecil.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#351c75"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#351c75">Anil</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Nimbkar Agricultural Research Institute (NARI)<br>Tambmal, Phaltan-Lonand Road<br>P.O.Box 44<br>Phaltan-415523, Maharashtra, India<br>Ph:91-2166-220945/222842<br><a href="mailto:e-mail%3Anariphaltan@gmail.com" target="_blank">e-mail:nariphaltan@gmail.com</a><br> <a href="mailto:nariphaltan@nariphaltan.org" target="_blank">nariphaltan@nariphaltan.org</a><br><br><a href="http://www.nariphaltan.org" target="_blank">http://www.nariphaltan.org</a></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 9:43 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:cec1863@gmail.com" target="_blank">cec1863@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="en-US" style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);line-height:initial"> <div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Well spoken Anil!</div><div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br></div><div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">I know that Karl Popper made much of Logical Negativism as the main dynamic by which science advances but I disagree with him because most scientists are too thin skinned to benefit from the public falsification of their theories and hypotheses. Scientists under attack waste life times and resources protecting themselves from criticism. The result is that the advance of science including even stove science such as it is slows down to a crawl. In big science we still have to wait for the influential big men to die off to get an entrenched paradigm to change (see the Structure of Scientific Revolutions by Thomas Kuhn). </div><div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br></div><div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">So I am personally and methodologically in favor of keeping as many odd balls and outsiders as possible in the stove conversation. Why not?</div><div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br></div><div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">When I studied briefly under Karl Popper at LSE I remember the emphasis he gave to the instrument makers of telescopes and microscopes in terms of their impact on the advancement of science or for the influence of astrology on Newton's theory of gravity, I recall that Sir Popper viewed the makers of instruments for observing nature as being more responsible for the advancement of science than the makers of big theories. </div><div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br></div><div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">That implies stovers perhaps need to spend more energy devising novel ways of testing stove performance as cultural artifacts, as consumer products for cooking and heating, as fuel burners, as air polluters and/or air cleaners, as employment generators and less time huffing and puffing about how to shift big paradigms a bit to the left or right!</div><div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br></div><div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">My position is that we are wasting time arguing over global stove performance standards and tests. We are still in the model T stage of the development of the small household stove industry. A global ISO process is counter productive because it is very premature. We need to bring practical role of thumb as well sophisticated applied stove science and testing to the people who need stove services, We need simple tried and true test methods that involve the end users and stove producers. As Crispin has been urging we need competent stove scientists who know how to evolve optimized stoves <b><i>in situ.</i></b></div><div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><b><i><br></i></b></div><div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span><span>IMO we do not need more stove, fuel and testing protocol missionaries. </span></span></div><div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span><span><br></span></span></div> <div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Cecil</div> <div style="font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Sent from my BlackBerry 10 <wbr>smartphone.</div> <table width="100%" style="background-color:white;border-spacing:0px"> <tbody><tr><td colspan="2" style="font-size:initial;text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> <div style="border-style:solid none none;border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223);border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt 0in 0in;font-family:Tahoma,'BB Alpha Sans','Slate Pro';font-size:10pt"> <div><b>From: </b>nari phaltan</div><div><b>Sent: </b>Wednesday, September 28, 2016 12:31 AM</div><div><b>To: </b>Discussion of biomass cooking stoves</div><div><b>Reply To: </b>Discussion of biomass cooking stoves</div><div><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Stoves] Oxymorons and credentials --- was Re: Off-topic no longer, re: News from Colorado: 'Rolling Coal"</div></div></td></tr></tbody></table><div style="border-style:solid none none;border-top-color:rgb(186,188,209);border-top-width:1pt;font-size:initial;text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"></div><br><div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#351c75">Ron and others,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#351c75"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#351c75">One of the great things about discussion via internet is that if you do not like what somebody is saying just ignore it (in face to face discussion this is sometimes not possible). You can always divert the attention of the group by giving better answers and examples of new clean cooking technology.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#351c75"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#351c75">The problem starts when people start attacking each other by calling names. Then it diverts the attention from the main thing - developing solutions for cooking for rural poor.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#351c75"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#351c75">I am sure the time you spent in digging up the past of Nikhil would have been better spent in looking at interesting new technologies for char.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#351c75"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#351c75">Nature evolves by making the other branch redundant not by pushing it down! I am sure most of the members on this list are 60+ years in age. We should show some wisdom and not rancor.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#351c75"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#351c75">Cheers.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#351c75"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:large;color:#351c75">Anil</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Nimbkar Agricultural Research Institute (NARI)<br>Tambmal, Phaltan-Lonand Road<br>P.O.Box 44<br>Phaltan-415523, Maharashtra, India<br>Ph:91-2166-220945/222842<br><a href="mailto:e-mail%3Anariphaltan@gmail.com" target="_blank">e-mail:nariphaltan@gmail.com</a><br> <a href="mailto:nariphaltan@nariphaltan.org" target="_blank">nariphaltan@nariphaltan.org</a><br><br><a href="http://www.nariphaltan.org" target="_blank">http://www.nariphaltan.org</a></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 2:14 AM, Ronal W. Larson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net" target="_blank">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div>Paul and list:</div><div><br></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>I have tried to learn more about Nikhil and found something quite informative (at <a href="http://nautilus.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Carbo-Cult.pdf" target="_blank">http://nautilus.org/wp-con<wbr>tent/uploads/2013/04/Carbo-Cul<wbr>t.pdf</a>), with a few excerpts:</div><div><i><br></i></div><div><i> <span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>“I am speaking of the cult of anti-CO2 (Carb-o) activists.</i> ……… <i>Of course, there was local biomass, which they could use amply, but that wasn’t the object of the NoCarbo
Cult. Besides, biomass cooking practices produced smoke and other toxic emissions, which too
didn’t concern the No-Carbo Cult, because, its proponents argued, biomass was “renewable”. Just how
the CO2 molecules absorbed by a growing tree anywhere can be separated by their origin – this little
piggy came from coal, this little piggy from gas, this little from making charcoal and this one from
burning charcoal – was not clear to me or anybody.</i> <i>………….. </i><i>Hence the No-Carbo Cult. What it promises is so long-term, it has to stress that the calamity is already
here, because we are all sinners today and are suffering because of the sins. It treats every molecule of
CO2 as a weapon of mass destruction, but only selectively – a very small fraction of the CO2 that goes up
in the atmosphere.”</i></div><div><br></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>The same climate denying stance is at these sites: <a href="http://nautilus.org/napsnet/napsnet-policy-forum/connecting-the-dots-in-an-ocean/" target="_blank">http://nautilus.org/napsnet/n<wbr>apsnet-policy-forum/connecting<wbr>-the-dots-in-an-ocean/</a> and <a href="http://nautilus.org/napsnet/napsnet-policy-forum/a-tale-of-two-disasters/" target="_blank">http://nautilus.org/napsn<wbr>et/napsnet-policy-forum/a-<wbr>tale-of-two-disasters/</a></div><div><br></div><div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>I think that background is justification also for this list to get into the topic of Internet trolls, where Wiki says this - where I have emphasized some key words: <span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>“<span style="color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">In </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_slang" title="Internet slang" style="text-decoration:none;color:rgb(11,0,128);background-image:none;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px" target="_blank">Internet slang</a><span style="color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">, a </span><b style="color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">troll</b><span style="color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> (</span><span style="white-space:nowrap;color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English" title="Help:IPA for English" style="text-decoration:none!important;color:rgb(11,0,128);background:none" target="_blank">/<span style="border-bottom:1px dotted"><span title="/ˈ/ primary stress follows">ˈ</span><span title="'t' in 'tie'">t</span><span title="'r' in 'rye'">r</span><span title="/oʊ/ long 'o' in 'code'">oʊ</span><span title="'l' in 'lie'">l</span></span>/</a></span></span><span style="color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">, </span><span style="white-space:nowrap;color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA_for_English" title="Help:IPA for English" style="text-decoration:none!important;color:rgb(11,0,128);background:none" target="_blank">/<span style="border-bottom:1px dotted"><span title="/ˈ/ primary stress follows">ˈ</span><span title="'t' in 'tie'">t</span><span title="'r' in 'rye'">r</span><span title="/ɒ/ short 'o' in 'body'">ɒ</span><span title="'l' in 'lie'">l</span></span>/</a></span></span><span style="color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">) is a person who sows discord on the </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet" title="Internet" style="text-decoration:none;color:rgb(11,0,128);background-image:none;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px" target="_blank">Internet</a><span style="color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,</span><sup style="line-height:1;white-space:nowrap;font-size:11.2px;color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll#cite_note-1" style="text-decoration:none;color:rgb(11,0,128);background-image:none;background-position:initial initial;background-repeat:initial initial" target="_blank">[1]</a></sup><span style="color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"></span><b><u><a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/extraneous#Adjective" title="wikt:extraneous" style="text-decoration:none;color:rgb(102,51,102);background-image:none;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px" target="_blank">extraneous</a><span style="color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">, or </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off-topic" title="Off-topic" style="text-decoration:none;color:rgb(11,0,128);background-image:none;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px" target="_blank">off-topic</a></u></b><span style="color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> messages in an online community (such as a </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newsgroup" title="Newsgroup" style="text-decoration:none;color:rgb(11,0,128);background-image:none;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px" target="_blank">newsgroup</a><span style="color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">, forum, </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chat_room" title="Chat room" style="text-decoration:none;color:rgb(11,0,128);background-image:none;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px" target="_blank">chat room</a><span style="color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into </span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font color="#252525" face="sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14px">unemotional response</span></font></span><sup style="line-height:1;white-space:nowrap;font-size:11.2px;color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll#cite_note-PCMAG_def-2" style="text-decoration:none;color:rgb(11,0,128);background-image:none;background-position:initial initial;background-repeat:initial initial" target="_blank">[2]</a></sup><span style="color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> o<wbr>r of <b>otherwise disrupting norma</b>l on-topic discussion,</span><sup style="line-height:1;white-space:nowrap;font-size:11.2px;color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll#cite_note-IUKB_def-3" style="text-decoration:none;color:rgb(11,0,128);background-image:none;background-position:initial initial;background-repeat:initial initial" target="_blank">[3]</a></sup><span style="color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> often for their <b>own amusement.</b></span><font color="#252525" face="sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14px"><b>”</b></span></font></div><div><font color="#252525" face="sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14px"><b><br></b></span></font></div><div><font color="#252525" face="sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14px"><span style="font-weight:bold;white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>Managed lists have a way of dealing with this behavior - fortunately.</span></font></div><div><div><div><br></div><br><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Sep 27, 2016, at 1:06 PM, Paul Anderson <<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;display:inline!important">Crispin (and Nikhil),</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;display:inline!important">1. "Clean stoves" and "clean fuels" are not oxymorons any more than "happy housewife" would be. <span> </span></span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;display:inline!important">2. You wrote:</span><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:windowtext">Unlike most of us here, he [Nikhil] has been in the trenches in Washington at a high level for decades and knows how the system is manipulated to generate funding by popularising the latest fad.<span> </span></span></blockquote><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;display:inline!important">I did not know of his credentials. This is probably a good time to generate some credibility. Easiest might be to post a resume, but a short description might be sufficient.</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;display:inline!important">Paul</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><pre cols="72" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New';font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: <a href="tel:%2B1-309-452-7072" value="+13094527072" target="_blank">+1-309-452-7072</a>
Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com/" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a></pre><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">On 9/27/2016 10:47 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:<br></div><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:windowtext">Dear Paul<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:windowtext"><u></u> <u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:windowtext">I think Nikhil’s complaint is that the concepts of ‘clean fuels’ or ‘clean stoves’ are oxymorons. There is no such thing on either score.<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:windowtext"><u></u> <u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:windowtext">As you are well aware, and have demonstrated in person, if a ‘clean TLUD gasifier’ goes wrong, there is a huge amount of smoke coming out until it is re-lit. So it is only clean under certain circumstances and with certain fuels, perhaps even only a certain<span> </span><i>size</i><span> </span>of fuel.<span> </span><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:windowtext"><u></u> <u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:windowtext">Nikhil seems to be calling ‘BS’ on the alarmist thing when that alarmist thing is supported by vapourware and numerical puffery.<span> </span><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:windowtext"><u></u> <u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:windowtext">Unlike most of us here, he has been in the trenches in Washington at a high level for decades and knows how the system is manipulated to generate funding by popularising the latest fad. I guess there is some merit is saying ‘that is how it works’ at least these days, but it does not compensate for the deliberate misrepresentation of facts in order to scare people into handing over the piggy bank.<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:windowtext"><u></u> <u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:windowtext">It seems everyone but everyone in this field is aware that only a combination of operator, fuel and product has an assessable ‘emission’ or ‘fuel’ metric. So let’s not beat around that bush. The forecasts (of which there are very few) of future impact on the public, especially public health or the destruction of forests which are the two major topics in regulations and project documents, have not been very accurate. The prediction to the Ulaanbaatar government that their air quality would continue to get worse if they didn’t ‘ban the burning of raw coal completely’ was a major forecast of doom. The population of the city grew faster than expected, the expansion of burning raw coal expanded, the stoves were replaced with ‘middling’ technical features and the air quality improved more than the scenario that required they ‘ban coal completely and replace everything with ‘clean fuels’.’<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:windowtext"><u></u> <u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:windowtext">The emergence of Rwanda as a charcoal-sustainable country while continuing not to ban charcoal as the primary cooking fuel – even in the absence of any substantive stove replacement programme – is another example of failed calamitous prediction. Everyone knows we are supposed to decry charcoal as a cause of blah-blah-blah. Now we have in Laos a wide scape roll out of the lighting cone (SNV) that reduces emissions dramatically, saves fuel and is cheap. No change in the stove at all. Nor the fuel. Next they can follow in the footsteps in Rwanda and produce enough fuel on private farms to feed the need.<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:windowtext"><u></u> <u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:windowtext">We have not talked about Chad (I think) and how they turned their charcoal industry into a profitable, sustainable enterprise owned by the communities. That is another amazing example of how changing the administration of fuel can create wealth and jobs and sustainable biofuel. It didn’t require the change of stove or fuel or people. Just how they worked together.<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:windowtext"><u></u> <u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:windowtext">There is a lot of room for self- examination here. Nikhil is on the right track with this modelling of health impacts. He, unlike most of us, understands the health modeling field very well.<span> </span><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:windowtext"><u></u> <u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:windowtext">Caution is advised<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:windowtext">Crispin<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:windowtext"><u></u> <u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:windowtext"><u></u> <u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Nikhil,<br><br>Your message is based on playing with words, trying to make "Clean Cookstoves" into a silly term because there can be fuel issues. Of course there are fuel issues and stove issues. That does not make the topic silly.<br><br>If this was just silly stuff, I would not have spent 15 years of my life helping to bring TLUD stoves to the top of the solid biomass stoves. <span> </span><br><br>If you think that clean cookstoves are silly and not important, then you are writing to the wrong group of people. <span> </span><br><br>Paul<br><br><u></u><u></u></div><pre style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a><u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">Skype: paultlud Phone: <a href="tel:%2B1-309-452-7072" value="+13094527072" target="_blank">+1-309-452-7072</a><u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com/" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a><u></u><u></u></pre><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">On 9/27/2016 9:13 AM, Traveller wrote:<u></u><u></u></div></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Teddy:<br><br>Thank you. That news item has great relevance to this list. <br><br>There are no "clean car engines" per se; their alleged cleanness or "emission rates" depend on fuel quality. <br><br>Which is why "Clean Cookstoves" - global alliances or blogal dalliances - is a silly term. <br><br>There are no "clean cookstoves" per se; only in combination with fuels, and in the context of operating practices and local environment (ventilation, wind, ambient air quality, other sources of emissions ranging from food and smoking to open waste.) <br><br>The scientist collective at the ISO 2012 IWA on cookstoves (<a href="https://www.iso.org/obp/ui/#iso:std:iso:iwa:11:ed-1:v1:en" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9.5pt">Guidelines for evaluating cookstove performance</span></a><span style="font-size:9.5pt">) <br><br>""</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">recognizes that the quality and type of fuel used by a testing centre may impact the emissions of a cookstove. Because of that, the International Workshop on Cookstoves recommends that testing centres document the key physical and operational characteristics (e.g. fuel, moisture content, pot size and shape) of the system."</span><u></u><u></u></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Georgia,serif"><br></span><span style="font-size:9.5pt">Whatever little I know suggests that temperatures and air flows determine the ratio and composition of PICs and that at relatively low temperatures and irregular air flows, fuel chemistry plays a critical role. But there's nothing here about chemical composition.<br><br>Is it any wonder folks go mumbling about "solid fuels", "dirty fuels"? (More on that later.)</span><br><br>WHO/GBD claims on the "global dataset for cooking fuel use" are bubbly champagne - or dope - served up to minors. (Remember the song "Goodnight, farewell" in Sound of Music where Liesel asks for her first taste of champagne?)<br><br>Let me put it bluntly - WHO has manufactured a "global emergency" based on non-existent data and questionable intelligence. (<a href="http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/10665/204717/1/9789241565233_eng.pdf" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">Burning Opportunity</a>, marketing the GBD adventure of killing by assumption as a<span> </span><a href="http://www.ccacoalition.org/en/news/new-who-report-household-air-pollution-driving-global-health-emergency" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">global health emergency</a>) <br><br>Clean Cookstoves are dirty business. <br><br>I for one do not believe one needs convincing evidence to act on reducing pollution exposures of vulnerable populations. The challenge is not compiling reams and reams of dubious data and faulty forecasts - of YLD and YLL - but to please the cooks. <br><br>Ron here thinks I have soured on science. Living in Washington, I am familiar with the politics of science and the science of politics. What is going on is corrupting intelligence. There is an emergency in "global health", namely, it has little to do with individual health. <br><br>Nikhil<br> <span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Georgia,serif"><br><br>---------</span><u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:Georgia,serif">(India +91) 909 995 2080</span><u></u><u></u></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 8:16 AM, Cookswell Jikos <<a href="mailto:cookswelljikos@gmail.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">cookswelljikos@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></div><blockquote style="border-style:none none none solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">What a story....similar to this gem is a story in todays newspaper regarding air pollution from bad fuel rejected by the EU and dumped in the African market - <span> </span><u></u><u></u></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">''<span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(102,102,102)">The high-sulphur fuels also have a knock-on effect, rapidly destroying emission-reducing technologies in vehicles, according to Rob de Jong, the head of the UNEP transport programme. “So if you buy a vehicle that’s a couple of years old and import it into some of the African countries, the technology in there – sensors and filters – all gets spoilt, and these cars, which are potentially very clean, are destroyed in a couple of tanks, and for the next 20 years will be belching smoke. It’s important to understand the tragedy of this,” he said. This in turn increases emissions of fine particulate matter, which can lodge deep in the lungs, causing cancers and other health problems.</span><u></u><u></u></div></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(102,102,102)">Read more at: </span><a href="http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/business/article/2000217548/dirty-diesel-rejected-in-europe-exported-to-africa" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(51,122,183);text-decoration:none">http://www.standardmedia.c<wbr>o.ke/business/article/20002175<wbr>48/dirty-diesel-rejected-in-<wbr>europe-exported-to-africa</span></a>'' <u></u><u></u></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">I certainly hope something like this cannot happen with LPG cooking gas or that all those generators in Lagos and Accra are not pumping smoke into the kitchens with induction stoves :(<u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Teddy <u></u><u></u></div></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><br clear="all"><u></u><u></u></div><div><div><div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><b>Cookswell Jikos</b><br><a href="http://www.cookswell.co.ke/" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">www.cookswell.co.ke</a><u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><a href="http://www.facebook.com/CookswellJikos" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/CookswellJiko<wbr>s</a><u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><a href="http://www.kenyacharcoal.blogspot.com/" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">www.kenyacharcoal.blogspot.com</a><u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Mobile: +254 700 380 009 <u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Mobile: +254 700 905 913<u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">P.O. Box 1433, Nairobi 00606, Kenya<u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-mFnK50B4oS8/UUrgJle8z9I/AAAAAAAAB_o/OUjLd7wrKPg/s133/Cookswell+Logo.PNG" height="96" border="0" width="71" style="width:0.7395in;min-height:1in"><u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span>Save trees - think twice before printing</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt">.</span><u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div></div><div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"> <u></u><u></u></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><br><br><br><u></u><u></u></div><pre style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">______________________________<wbr>_________________<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">Stoves mailing list<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'"><u></u> <u></u></pre><pre style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'"><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.or<wbr>g</a><u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'"><u></u> <u></u></pre><pre style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'"><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.or<wbr>g/mailman/listinfo/stoves_list<wbr>s.bioenergylists.org</a><u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'"><u></u> <u></u></pre><pre style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'"><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.o<wbr>rg/</a><u></u><u></u></pre><pre style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'"><u></u> <u></u></pre></blockquote><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div></div><br><fieldset></fieldset><br><pre style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New'">______________________________<wbr>_________________
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</pre></blockquote><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;display:inline!important">______________________________<wbr>_________________</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span 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style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;display:inline!important">to Send a Message to the list, use the email address</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;display:inline!important"><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.or<wbr>g</a></span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;display:inline!important">to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.or<wbr>g/mailman/listinfo/stoves_list<wbr>s.bioenergylists.org</a><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;display:inline!important">for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.o<wbr>rg/</a><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.or<wbr>g</a><br>
<br>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.or<wbr>g/mailman/listinfo/stoves_list<wbr>s.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>
<a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.o<wbr>rg/</a><br>
<br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
<br></div></div>
<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Stoves mailing list<br>
<br>
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.<wbr>org</a><br>
<br>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.<wbr>org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_<wbr>lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>
<a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.<wbr>org/</a><br>
<br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>