<p dir="ltr">No, but it is produced with a pyrolysis front at a temperature (500c ish) at the low end of normal for a TLUDs filled with wood pellets. There are some unanswered ( or demonstrated) questions here. To match burn rate with a higher py-fr-tp I need to use a smaller fuel chamber and increase the superficial velocity. This will perhaps produce a different gas composition. We'll see...</p>
<p dir="ltr">Alex</p>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sep 29, 2016 9:00 AM, "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="en-US" style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);line-height:initial">
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Dear Alex</div>
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</div>
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<span style="font-size:initial;text-align:initial;line-height:initial">is that flame produced late in the pyrolysis? By that I means in a carbon 'evaporating' stage.</span></div>
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<span style="font-size:initial;text-align:initial;line-height:initial"><br>
</span></div>
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<span style="font-size:initial;text-align:initial;line-height:initial">Thanks</span></div>
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<span style="font-size:initial;text-align:initial;line-height:initial">Crispin </span></div>
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<span style="font-size:initial;text-align:initial;line-height:initial"><br>
</span></div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Kirk,
<div>Its quite wonderful what you have demonstrated. A holy grail of sorts. The durability and complexity, and ultimately this is the cost, of the structure you have placed in the flame/gas path will determine its future usefulness. Interesting solution none
the less.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Here is a recent video of my premixed blue tlud-gas flame. Its all geometry, no obstruction.</div>
<div><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnV1e60NTss&feature=youtu.be" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?<wbr>v=jnV1e60NTss&feature=youtu.be</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Alex<br>
<div><br>
<div>On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 12:05 PM, kgharris <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:kgharris@sonic.net" target="_blank">kgharris@sonic.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<u></u>
<div lang="EN-CA" bgcolor="white">
<div><font face="Arial">Crispin and All,</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Some clarification: By radial mixing I assume you mean the method in the lower photo where the air travels inward, radially. By helical mixing I assume you mean swirling gasses by using fan blades like in the top photo. Neither of
these represents a conclusion on my part. Your opening sentence put me on guard immediately because it defines your techniques as my conclusion. A more accurate starting sentence for your response would have been 'Here are two techniques to look at that
have worked for me'. My thinking is not limited to these two ideas. </font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Your techniques are what I was looking for, ideas for rapid mixing.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Kirk H.</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<blockquote dir="ltr" style="border-left:2px solid rgb(0,0,0);padding-left:5px;padding-right:0px;margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px">
<div style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:10pt;line-height:normal;font-family:arial">
<font size="3">----- Original Message ----- </font></div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:10pt;line-height:normal;font-family:arial;background-color:rgb(228,228,228)">
<font size="3"><b>From:</b> </font><a title="crispinpigott@outlook.com"><font size="3">Crispin Pemberton-Pigott</font></a><font size="3">
</font></div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:10pt;line-height:normal;font-family:arial">
<font size="3"><b>To:</b> </font><a title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"><font size="3">'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'</font></a><font size="3">
</font></div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:10pt;line-height:normal;font-family:arial">
<font size="3"><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 27, 2016 8:09 PM</font></div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:10pt;line-height:normal;font-family:arial">
<font size="3"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] Rapid mixing</font></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<p><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><font size="3">Dear Kirk<u></u><u></u></font></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><u></u><font size="3"> </font><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><font size="3">I think your conclusion is correct – that you can shorted the height of the combustion zone with radial or helical mixing.<u></u><u></u></font></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><u></u><font size="3"> </font><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><font size="3">I provide two photos with this in mind, though accomplished in completely different ways. The first is (for a wood burner, not pellets) is to put the mixed below
the fuel, to continuously create a series of ‘induced vortices’ a few of which pass through the fuel and provide mixing by spinning. A vortex tends to perpetuate itself so all that is needed is to get a few going all the time.<u></u><u></u></font></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><u></u><font size="3"> </font><u></u></span></p>
<p><img src="cid:BE556CB969264075B6140222E23AED59@phyllisPC" width="302" height="272" style="width:3.145in;min-height:2.833in"><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><font size="3">The material is a low chrome stainless steel. The production is in three stages: blanking, punching the cuts, then forming.<u></u><u></u></font></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><u></u><font size="3"> </font><u></u></span></p>
<p><font size="3"><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">The second method of shortening the flame is to use the secondary air entering the fire as a method of driving the flames horizontally. This should be done in
a ‘divided’ manner, not a ring of air, so that it breaks up the rising gases into manageable jets. This kind of short clean burn can only be done with preheated secondary air – 300-500</span><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">˚</span><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">C
works well.<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><u></u><font size="3"> </font><u></u></span></p>
<p><img src="cid:B0AE5440D3C44C54B1A24E192D949885@phyllisPC" width="302" height="302" style="width:3.145in;min-height:3.145in"><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><u></u><font size="3"> </font><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><font size="3">The fire above is burning pellet gas (as a TLUD) though it also works for wood if the gas generation is consistent. Consistency requires very good air control.
The amount of is required to achieve this is so low that it pretty much rules out having an open bottom with fuel sticking out.
<u></u><u></u></font></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><u></u><font size="3"> </font><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><font size="3">Readers may recall Julien in Coburg combined the injection of air and placement of the air feed in the gas stream. A problem commonly reported with that approach
is the cooling of the metal by the air can interfere with the combustion.<u></u><u></u></font></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><u></u><font size="3"> </font><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><font size="3">Readers may also recall Dr Nurhuda in Indonesia achieved a downward turning flame consistently in his recent stoves reducing the flame height basically to zero.
All of these approaches can assist the provision of lower height stoves – a major challenge for typical Indian rural households where cooks won’t compromise on the cooking height.
<u></u><u></u></font></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><u></u><font size="3"> </font><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><font size="3">Everyone should try these approaches and report what works well.
<u></u><u></u></font></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><u></u><font size="3"> </font><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><font size="3">Regards<u></u><u></u></font></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><font size="3">Crispin<u></u><u></u></font></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><u></u><font size="3"> </font><u></u></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><u></u><font size="3"> </font><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p> ……<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><font size="3"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">Not to be distracted from the purpose of this list, I have a thought about wood stoves. A small natural draft wood burning cook stove that mixes the wood gas with
secondary air in 2 cm has a considerable advantage over a stove that may take 20 cm or more. It's a little like transistors, which gave advantage over vacuum tubes in electronics. Rapid mixing can enable a small wood stove to burn quick and clean at both
<strong><u><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">high and low</span></u></strong> power levels. Witness the excellent numbers for the Wonderwerk TLUD-ND stove which uses a rapid Venturi mixing technique. Combined with the user friendly power level controls,
the principles used in the Wonderwerk stove hold considerable potential. Rapid mixing seems to me to be a very good area for research. I wonder how many rapid mixing techniques will be found over the next few years? I intend to contribute.</span><u></u><u></u></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><font size="3"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">List, keep writing about wood stoves, don't be distracted.</span><u></u><u></u></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p> <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><font size="3"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">Kirk H.</span><u></u><u></u></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p></p>
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