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Alex,<br>
<br>
As stated, your video of the blue flame is created with woodgas
(pyrolytic gases) created in a TLUD. Clearly something very
distinctive is happening. Answering the unanswered questions will
be wonderful.<br>
<br>
The other approach is to have other people (independent parties)
replicate what you have accomplished. Please help make that
happen. You can select the people (such as Julien and Crispin and
Kirk H. and others), or provide instructions to everyone and then we
see who can do the replication.<br>
<br>
For those who do not know Alex and his exceptional credentials as a
very early TLUD Pyroneer (1990's), see the History of
Micro-gasification at my website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a> <br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/29/2016 9:23 AM, alex english
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CA+6hwOqDHXNr9qCh+qag+218Sg2fZSCmHFVfDKE+iYL8VkDBQw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<p dir="ltr">No, but it is produced with a pyrolysis front at a
temperature (500c ish) at the low end of normal for a TLUDs
filled with wood pellets. There are some unanswered ( or
demonstrated) questions here. To match burn rate with a higher
py-fr-tp I need to use a smaller fuel chamber and increase the
superficial velocity. This will perhaps produce a different gas
composition. We'll see...</p>
<p dir="ltr">Alex</p>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sep 29, 2016 9:00 AM, "Crispin
Pemberton-Pigott" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div
style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);line-height:initial"
lang="en-US">
<div
style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate
Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Dear Alex</div>
<div
style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate
Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div
style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate
Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span
style="font-size:initial;text-align:initial;line-height:initial">is
that flame produced late in the pyrolysis? By that I
means in a carbon 'evaporating' stage.</span></div>
<div
style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate
Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span
style="font-size:initial;text-align:initial;line-height:initial"><br>
</span></div>
<div
style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate
Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span
style="font-size:initial;text-align:initial;line-height:initial">Thanks</span></div>
<div
style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate
Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span
style="font-size:initial;text-align:initial;line-height:initial">Crispin </span></div>
<div
style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate
Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span
style="font-size:initial;text-align:initial;line-height:initial"><br>
</span></div>
<br>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Kirk,
<div>Its quite wonderful what you have demonstrated. A
holy grail of sorts. The durability and complexity,
and ultimately this is the cost, of the structure
you have placed in the flame/gas path will determine
its future usefulness. Interesting solution none the
less.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Here is a recent video of my premixed blue
tlud-gas flame. Its all geometry, no obstruction.</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnV1e60NTss&feature=youtu.be"
target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?<wbr>v=jnV1e60NTss&feature=youtu.be</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Alex<br>
<div><br>
<div>On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 12:05 PM, kgharris <span
dir="ltr">
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kgharris@sonic.net"
target="_blank">kgharris@sonic.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="white" lang="EN-CA">
<div><font face="Arial">Crispin and All,</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Some clarification:
By radial mixing I assume you mean
the method in the lower photo where the
air travels inward, radially. By
helical mixing I assume you mean
swirling gasses by using fan blades like
in the top photo. Neither of these
represents a conclusion on my
part. Your opening sentence put me on
guard immediately because it defines
your techniques as my conclusion.
A more accurate starting sentence for
your response would have been 'Here are
two techniques to look at that have
worked for me'. My thinking is not
limited to these two ideas. </font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Your techniques are
what I was looking for, ideas for rapid
mixing.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Kirk H.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote dir="ltr" style="border-left:2px
solid
rgb(0,0,0);padding-left:5px;padding-right:0px;margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px">
<div
style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:10pt;line-height:normal;font-family:arial"><font
size="3">----- Original Message -----
</font></div>
<div
style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:10pt;line-height:normal;font-family:arial;background-color:rgb(228,228,228)"><font
size="3"><b>From:</b> </font><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="crispinpigott@outlook.com"><font
size="3">Crispin Pemberton-Pigott</font></a><font
size="3">
</font></div>
<div
style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:10pt;line-height:normal;font-family:arial"><font
size="3"><b>To:</b> </font><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"><font
size="3">'Discussion of biomass
cooking stoves'</font></a><font
size="3">
</font></div>
<div
style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:10pt;line-height:normal;font-family:arial"><font
size="3"><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday,
September 27, 2016 8:09 PM</font></div>
<div
style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:10pt;line-height:normal;font-family:arial"><font
size="3"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves]
Rapid mixing</font></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<p><span
style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><font
size="3">Dear Kirk</font></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><font
size="3"> </font></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><font
size="3">I think your conclusion
is correct – that you can shorted
the height of the combustion zone
with radial or helical mixing.</font></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><font
size="3"> </font></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><font
size="3">I provide two photos with
this in mind, though accomplished
in completely different ways. The
first is (for a wood burner, not
pellets) is to put the mixed below
the fuel, to continuously create a
series of ‘induced vortices’ a few
of which pass through the fuel and
provide mixing by spinning. A
vortex tends to perpetuate itself
so all that is needed is to get a
few going all the time.</font></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><font
size="3"> </font></span></p>
<p><img
src="cid:part6.FDB8AF14.5EFEAEAF@ilstu.edu"
style="width:3.145in;min-height:2.833in" height="272" width="302"><span
style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><font
size="3">The material is a low
chrome stainless steel. The
production is in three stages:
blanking, punching the cuts, then
forming.</font></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><font
size="3"> </font></span></p>
<p><font size="3"><span
style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">The
second method of shortening the
flame is to use the secondary air
entering the fire as a method of
driving the flames horizontally.
This should be done in a ‘divided’
manner, not a ring of air, so that
it breaks up the rising gases into
manageable jets. This kind of
short clean burn can only be done
with preheated secondary air –
300-500</span><span
style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">˚</span><span
style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt">C works well.</span></font></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><font
size="3"> </font></span></p>
<p><img
src="cid:part7.DCD26E33.1937EBA4@ilstu.edu"
style="width:3.145in;min-height:3.145in" height="302" width="302"><span
style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><font
size="3"> </font></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><font
size="3">The fire above is burning
pellet gas (as a TLUD) though it
also works for wood if the gas
generation is consistent.
Consistency requires very good air
control. The amount of is required
to achieve this is so low that it
pretty much rules out having an
open bottom with fuel sticking
out.
</font></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><font
size="3"> </font></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><font
size="3">Readers may recall Julien
in Coburg combined the injection
of air and placement of the air
feed in the gas stream. A problem
commonly reported with that
approach is the cooling of the
metal by the air can interfere
with the combustion.</font></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><font
size="3"> </font></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><font
size="3">Readers may also recall
Dr Nurhuda in Indonesia achieved a
downward turning flame
consistently in his recent stoves
reducing the flame height
basically to zero. All of these
approaches can assist the
provision of lower height stoves –
a major challenge for typical
Indian rural households where
cooks won’t compromise on the
cooking height.
</font></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><font
size="3"> </font></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><font
size="3">Everyone should try these
approaches and report what works
well.
</font></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><font
size="3"> </font></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><font
size="3">Regards</font></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><font
size="3">Crispin</font></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><font
size="3"> </font></span></p>
<p><span
style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt"><font
size="3"> </font></span></p>
<div>
<p> ……</p>
</div>
<div>
<p><font size="3"><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">Not
to be distracted from the
purpose of this list, I have a
thought about wood stoves. A
small natural draft wood burning
cook stove that mixes the wood
gas with secondary air in 2 cm
has a considerable advantage
over a stove that may take 20 cm
or more. It's a little
like transistors, which gave
advantage over vacuum tubes in
electronics. Rapid mixing can
enable a small wood stove to
burn quick and clean at both
<strong><u><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">high
and low</span></u></strong>
power levels. Witness the
excellent numbers for the
Wonderwerk TLUD-ND stove which
uses a rapid Venturi mixing
technique. Combined with
the user friendly power level
controls, the principles used in
the Wonderwerk stove hold
considerable potential. Rapid
mixing seems to me to be a very
good area for research. I
wonder how many rapid mixing
techniques will be found over
the next few years? I intend to
contribute.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p><font size="3"><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">List,
keep writing about wood stoves,
don't be distracted.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p><font size="3"><span
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:10pt">Kirk
H.</span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
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