<div dir="ltr">Dear Tony,<div>the commercially available pellets/briquettes are too dense and hard. Housewives do not like them as fuelwood substitute because they find it difficult to ignite them. If you have sawdust, you can mix it with dung (about 10% of fresh weight of dung to 100% sawdust) and extrude the dough to make briquettes having about 2 cm diameter and having the same density as wood. We have been able to modify commercially available meat mincers into such extruders. The dough can also be shaped manually into balls or fuelwood size billets. Whether one makes them by using an extruder or by the manual process, they have to be dried in the sun for at least four days. Sun-drying is not a problem in India, but it may be in a country situated on the equator.</div><div>Yours</div><div>A.D.Karve</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">***<br>Dr. A.D. Karve<br><br>Chairman, Samuchit Enviro Tech Pvt Ltd (<a href="http://www.samuchit.com" target="_blank">www.samuchit.com</a>)<br><br>Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)<br></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 10:04 PM, Tony Vovers <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:vovers1@gmail.com" target="_blank">vovers1@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Kirk - I am quite interested to find out some more about your idea of a retort with TLUD.<div>In Bali here there is a bamboo factory which is burning off about 5m^3 of sawdust every 2-3 days.</div><div>Maybe not going to set the world on fire with the volume but a shame to see it going up in unused smoke.</div><div>Attempts to use the sawdust directly in institutional cookstoves have not been too successful. The cooks keep switching back to wood.</div><div>We were starting to look at pelletizing machines (pellet mill) but there is not a lot of interest to invest unless the value can be proven and the volume is not huge.</div><div><br></div><div>This has been an amazingly active thread which demonstrates the maze and complexity of the real world requirements.</div><div>Unfortunately I couldn't cook on a 30m pyrolizing tower with a fluidized bed.... but it would be lovely to see one in action!</div><div><br></div><div>Could you describe a little better how or where you would construct the retort while still cooking? I have had some contact with Prime stoves but so far not actually seen one.</div><div><br></div><div>Many thanks </div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></font></span></div><div class="gmail_extra"><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br clear="all"><div><div class="m_-4938078013925142258gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr">Tony Vovers</div><div>+1 281 7381000 (VOIP)<br>+62 (813) 3888 9062 (HP)</div></div></div></div></div></font></span><div><div class="h5">
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 5:10 AM, kgharris <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kgharris@sonic.net" target="_blank">kgharris@sonic.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Rebecca,</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">This could make a good char buy back program.
Saw dust could be charred in small retorts in cook stoves. The gas from
the saw dust would add to the cook fire and the char bought and brought to
a central briquette making facility, or used for other products (char is
versatile). I don't know if the Eco Kalan is able to receive a retort,
perhaps it would need a TLUD. There are two excellent TLUDs that I know of
in that part of the world, the Champion and the Prime (though the Prime has a
central post that might interfere). There are probably more. Another
possibility is the new rice husk stoves. Saw dust is similar in texture
so perhaps saw dust would work in a forced air rice hull stove with
whatever adapting is needed. This would allow loose, unprocessed (except
for drying) saw dust to be a fuel source. Servals recent success could be
a model buy back program to look at.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Kirk</font></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#000000 2px solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px" dir="ltr"><div><div class="m_-4938078013925142258h5">
<div style="FONT:10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial;BACKGROUND:#e4e4e4"><b>From:</b>
<a title="ravermeer@telus.net" href="mailto:ravermeer@telus.net" target="_blank">Rebecca A.
Vermeer</a> </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</a> </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 12, 2016 8:37
AM</div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] Charcoal from waste
- home cooking or other markets? (Re: Crispin, Anand Karve)</div>
<div><br></div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;COLOR:#000000;FONT-SIZE:12pt">
<div>Dear Chris, Crispin,<br></div>
<div>Do you know of a successful project where wood sawdust is converted to
charcoal and the charcoal processed into briquettes?</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Rebecca Vermeer</div>
<div><br></div>
<hr id="m_-4938078013925142258m_-4280728987976814159zwchr">
<div style="FONT-STYLE:normal;FONT-FAMILY:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;COLOR:#000;FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-WEIGHT:normal;TEXT-DECORATION:none"><b>From:
</b>"Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" target="_blank">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>><br><b>To:
</b>"stoves <a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">lists.bioenergylists.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.o<wbr>rg</a>><br><b>Sent:
</b>Tuesday, October 11, 2016 4:12:52 AM<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Stoves]
Charcoal from waste - home cooking or other markets? (Re: Crispin, Anand
Karve)<br>
<div><br></div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:rgb(255,255,255);WIDTH:100%;FONT-FAMILY:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;COLOR:rgb(31,73,125)"><br>Dear
Chris</div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:rgb(255,255,255);WIDTH:100%;FONT-FAMILY:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;COLOR:rgb(31,73,125)"><br></div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:rgb(255,255,255);WIDTH:100%;FONT-FAMILY:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;COLOR:rgb(31,73,125)">Always
good to hear from you. The bamboo waste things sounds highly replicable in
many areas.</div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:rgb(255,255,255);WIDTH:100%;FONT-FAMILY:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;COLOR:rgb(31,73,125)"><br></div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:rgb(255,255,255);WIDTH:100%;FONT-FAMILY:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;COLOR:rgb(31,73,125)">I
will report separately on the experiments with biochar being made at the CAU
lab in Beijing, which is on an experimental farm. They have many sources for
the char and are looking into how it affects plant growth. </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:rgb(255,255,255);WIDTH:100%;FONT-FAMILY:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;COLOR:rgb(31,73,125)"><br></div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:rgb(255,255,255);WIDTH:100%;FONT-FAMILY:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;COLOR:rgb(31,73,125)">One
of the source materials is sewage which contains plenty of carbon. </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:rgb(255,255,255);WIDTH:100%;FONT-FAMILY:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;COLOR:rgb(31,73,125)"><br></div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:rgb(255,255,255);WIDTH:100%;FONT-FAMILY:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;COLOR:rgb(31,73,125)">Regards </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND-COLOR:rgb(255,255,255);WIDTH:100%;FONT-FAMILY:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;COLOR:rgb(31,73,125)">Crispin</div><br>
<div>
<p style="MARGIN:0px"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;COLOR:#000000;FONT-SIZE:10pt;TEXT-DECORATION:none"></span> </p>
<p style="MARGIN:0px 5px 0px 0px"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;COLOR:#000000;FONT-SIZE:10pt;TEXT-DECORATION:none">"Charcoal
from waste",<br>i can report from 3 interesting projects in East Africa and
Southern Africa transforming waste to charcoal:</span></p>
<p style="MARGIN:0px 5px 0px 0px"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;COLOR:#000000;FONT-SIZE:10pt;TEXT-DECORATION:none"><br>1)
A project in the East of Kenya near Lake Victoria is transforming bagasse from
sugarcane can into charcoal. They are using an "adam-retort" kiln for the
carbonization of the bio-waste.</span> About 100kg to120kg (dry weight)
of bagasse fit into the wood chamber of about 2,5 (?)m³.</p>
<p style="MARGIN:0px 5px 0px 0px"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;COLOR:#000000;FONT-SIZE:10pt;TEXT-DECORATION:none">About
30kg of charcoal are harvested. Efficiency is about 30% (burnt waste fuel in
fire box not counted). The charcoal is shaped into briquettes, but I have not
details about it.<br></span></p>
<p style="MARGIN:0px 5px 0px 0px"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;COLOR:#000000;FONT-SIZE:10pt;TEXT-DECORATION:none"><strong><span class="m_-4938078013925142258m_-4280728987976814159cmp_parsed_email"><a href="mailto:mark.lung@eco2librium.com" target="_blank">mark.lung@eco2librium.com</a></span><a class="m_-4938078013925142258m_-4280728987976814159cmp_parsed_url" href="http://www.eco2librum.net,,/" target="_blank">,</a>
<a href="http://www.eco2librium.net/" target="_blank">http://www.eco2librium.net/</a><br></strong></span></p>
<p style="MARGIN:0px 5px 0px 0px"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;COLOR:#000000;FONT-SIZE:10pt;TEXT-DECORATION:none"></span> </p>
<p style="MARGIN:0px 5px 0px 0px"> </p>
<p style="MARGIN:0px 5px 0px 0px"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;COLOR:#000000;FONT-SIZE:10pt;TEXT-DECORATION:none">2)
Another interesting project is done in Kenya near Naivsha.<br>I cite from
their homepage: "In urbanizing communities we install modern container-based
toilets in people's homes for free and charge a small monthly fee to service
them. Then, instead of dumping the waste, we transform it into a clean burning
alternative to charcoal. Our dependable, user-focused, and vertically
integrated sanitation services address the full sanitation value chain and
allow families living in urbanizing communities throughout East Africa to live
a modern and healthy life.</span></p>
<p style="MARGIN:0px 5px 0px 0px"> </p>
<p style="MARGIN:0px 5px 0px 0px"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;COLOR:#000000;FONT-SIZE:10pt;TEXT-DECORATION:none">As
far as i understood the "pupe" is used as a binder to make charcoal
briquettes. The charcoal comes from twigs, roots and leaves which is a left
over from nearby flower farms. The twigs and leaves are carbonized in an
"adam-retort" kiln. Unfortunately i don't have any further details.</span></p>
<p style="MARGIN:0px 5px 0px 0px"> <span style="FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma;FONT-SIZE:small" id="m_-4938078013925142258m_-4280728987976814159yiv4115818809yui_3_16_0_1_1476168021128_14351">Catherine Berner |
Technical Lead</span><span style="FONT-SIZE:small" id="m_-4938078013925142258m_-4280728987976814159yiv4115818809yui_3_16_0_1_1476168021128_14353"></span><span style="FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma;FONT-SIZE:small" id="m_-4938078013925142258m_-4280728987976814159yiv4115818809yui_3_16_0_1_1476168021128_14354"> <a id="m_-4938078013925142258m_-4280728987976814159yiv4115818809yui_3_16_0_1_1476168021128_14356" class="m_-4938078013925142258m_-4280728987976814159cmp_parsed_email m_-4938078013925142258m_-4280728987976814159mceItemAnchor" shape="rect" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="mailto:catherine@sanivation.com" target="_blank">catherine@sanivation.com</a><br id="m_-4938078013925142258m_-4280728987976814159yiv4115818809yui_3_16_0_1_1476168021128_14358" clear="none"></span></p>
<div style="MARGIN-BOTTOM:0pt" dir="ltr" id="m_-4938078013925142258m_-4280728987976814159yiv4115818809yui_3_16_0_1_1476168021128_14359"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma;FONT-SIZE:small" id="m_-4938078013925142258m_-4280728987976814159yiv4115818809yui_3_16_0_1_1476168021128_14360"><a id="m_-4938078013925142258m_-4280728987976814159yiv4115818809yui_3_16_0_1_1476168021128_14361" class="m_-4938078013925142258m_-4280728987976814159cmp_parsed_url" href="http://www.sanivation.com/" shape="rect" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.sanivation.com</a> |</span></div>
<p style="MARGIN:0px 5px 0px 0px"> </p>
<p style="MARGIN:0px 5px 0px 0px"> </p>
<p style="MARGIN:0px 5px 0px 0px">3) In <strong>Malawi /
Zimbabwe</strong> a project is using bamboo left overs for carbonization. I am
not sure if the bamboo-char is used itself or it is compacted into briquettes.
What's interesting is that they made essays with an industrial steel retort
and a brick built "adam-retort" kiln. The industrial steel retort has less
volume and its costs including transport <strong>300% more</strong> that the
brick built kiln<span style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;COLOR:#000000;FONT-SIZE:10pt;TEXT-DECORATION:none"><br></span>and
they prefer the brick built kiln.</p>
<p style="MARGIN:0px 5px 0px 0px">(citation. "...<span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt" id="m_-4938078013925142258m_-4280728987976814159yui_3_16_0_1_1476168021128_65111">The metal retort stores approx.
330kg of bamboo (adam: dry or wet ??) and yields about 80kg – 100kg charcoal
but uses almost as much firewood as the brick retort so efficiency conversion
rate is low.</span>.."</p>
<p style="MARGIN:0px 5px 0px 0px"> </p>
<p style="MARGIN:0px 5px 0px 0px">On the brick kiln i got the
following information, i assume the wood chamber has a volume of about 3m³
:<span style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;COLOR:#000000;FONT-SIZE:10pt;TEXT-DECORATION:none"><br></span>"
..<span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt" id="m_-4938078013925142258m_-4280728987976814159yui_3_16_0_1_1476168021128_65160">It is very successful. The community
group built it entirely themselves on provision of the materials. The
recovery rate is <strong>very high</strong> – approx. 800kg bamboo <span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt" id="m_-4938078013925142258m_-4280728987976814159yui_3_16_0_1_1476168021128_65111">(adam: dry or wet ??)</span> giving
<strong>250kg charcoal</strong> and using around 100kg firewood or less.
(adam: 800kg --> 250kg, folllows 100kg --> 31kg)</span>..".</p>
<p style="MARGIN:0px 5px 0px 0px"><span style="FONT-SIZE:11pt" id="m_-4938078013925142258m_-4280728987976814159yui_3_16_0_1_1476168021128_65372" lang="EN-US"><a id="m_-4938078013925142258m_-4280728987976814159yui_3_16_0_1_1476168021128_65374" class="m_-4938078013925142258m_-4280728987976814159cmp_parsed_email m_-4938078013925142258m_-4280728987976814159mceItemAnchor" shape="rect" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="mailto:louise.bleach@googlemail.com" target="_blank">louise.bleach@googlemail.com</a>, <wbr> </span></p>
<p style="MARGIN:0px 5px 0px 0px"><a class="m_-4938078013925142258m_-4280728987976814159cmp_parsed_url" href="http://bio-innovation.org/" target="_blank">http://bio-innovation.org</a></p>
<p style="MARGIN:0px 5px 0px 0px"> </p>
<p style="MARGIN:0px 5px 0px 0px">Cheers</p>
<p style="MARGIN:0px 5px 0px 0px">Dr. Chris ADAM<span style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;COLOR:#000000;FONT-SIZE:10pt;TEXT-DECORATION:none"><br></span><a href="http://biocoal.org" target="_blank">biocoal.org</a></p>
<p style="MARGIN:0px 5px 0px 0px"> </p>
<p style="MARGIN:0px 5px 0px 0px"> </p>
<p style="MARGIN:0px"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;COLOR:#000000;FONT-SIZE:10pt;TEXT-DECORATION:none"></span> </p>
<p style="MARGIN:0px"> </p>
<p style="MARGIN:0px"> </p>
<p style="MARGIN:0px">-----Original-Nachricht-----</p>
<p style="MARGIN:0px">Betreff: [Stoves]
Charcoal from waste - home cooking or other markets? (Re: Crispin, Anand
Karve)</p>
<p style="MARGIN:0px">Datum:
2016-10-04T16:43:48+0200</p>
<p style="MARGIN:0px">Von: "Nikhil Desai"
<<a href="mailto:pienergy2008@gmail.com" target="_blank">pienergy2008@gmail.com</a>></p>
<p style="MARGIN:0px">An: "Discussion of
biomass cooking stoves" <<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.o<wbr>rg</a>></p>
<p style="MARGIN:0px"> </p>
<p style="MARGIN:0px"> </p>
<p style="MARGIN:0px"> </p>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Moderator: I changed the subject line. This is in response to
Crispin's comment about Anand Karve's work.
<div>---------------
<div>
<div> </div>
<div>Crispin: "<span style="FONT-SIZE:12px">That is what is so inspiring about AD
Karve?s work on charring waste </span><span style="FONT-SIZE:12px">biomass to produce a high quality fuel. He
even produced the extruder and </span><span style="FONT-SIZE:12px">the Sarai stove to go with it. That is a
museum quality piece of work - to </span><span style="FONT-SIZE:12px">be studied... "<br></span><br>I take your
word for it, but I also had this suspicion a few years ago that what Anand
Karve was proposing in terms of converting waste biomass for charcoal was
worth more attention, not primarily as a fuel choice issue but as a waste
management issue. In dry regions such as much of India, leaf and tree waste
along with other open biomass waste is a major problem in municipal waste
management. Why, just driving by Gandhinagar - the capital of Gujarat state
where I lived - a few months ago I saw huge piles of leaf waste in numerous
parks that have been created by the state government to make the city "green".
All those leaves will be burned in the open, contributing to air pollution
(not reported in peer-reviewed literature so it must not exist) that damages
biota health here and now. On the other hand, such burning will release
organic aerosols that supposedly cool the atmosphere, so it is most definitely
"green" for the "global environment" advocates. <br><span style="FONT-SIZE:12px"><br>Open organic
waste - including leaves, tree debris, food waste - is a huge headache for
local governments. On the other hand, urban trees have multiple benefits
including <a href="https://www.accessscience.com/content/urban-tree-leaves-remove-fine-particulate-air-pollution/BR0116141" target="_blank">air
filtering</a>, favorable changes in ambient temperatures (thus impacting
building energy demand; I did some work for Cinncinnati Gas and Electric
climate options 20+ years ago), and I also happen to like urban forestry,
gardening, food production (if land, water, and air quality so
permit). <br><br>A new paradigm of urban/peri-urban biomass production,
utilization, and waste management needs to emerge, and energy analysts have
much to offer. </span></div>
<div><span style="FONT-SIZE:12px"></span> </div>
<div><span style="FONT-SIZE:12px">Unless
they leave the field to WHO and EPA. <br><br></span></div>
<div><span style="FONT-SIZE:12px">The
question is, do Indian customers care to advance to cleaner charcoal or
convenient LPG? <br><br>As I mentioned in the previous post, the commercial
potential may not lie in household cooking but in water heating (peri-urban,
rural) and commercial/institutional cooking and heating
(water/space). </span></div>
<div><span style="FONT-SIZE:12px"></span> </div>
<div><span style="FONT-SIZE:12px">****<br><br>Crispin: "But he is promoting
charcoal consumption - very offensive to some. Shall </span><span style="FONT-SIZE:12px">we forgive him
too? :)"</span><br>
<div><br>Asking forgiveness from sinners of cooked science? You must be
joking, Mr. Pemberton-Pigott. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>I note your emoticon, but this is no laughing matter. I think it's time
to stop blaming direct use of solid fuels for presumed envionmental
ills.<br><br>It's the process that matters. Converting primary solid fuels
into an energy service can be "dirty process" or "clean (or cleaner) process."
<br><br>Extending Kirk Smith et al (AREE 2000 on India) to all processes of
solid fuel transformation, not just final combustion, and counting all
emissions, could well show that investments at all steps of the fuel cycle can
deliver small-scale direct use of solid fuels at a lower emission rates than
the "traditional" processes (unprocessed solid fuels with relatively
uncontrolled combustion and no emissions capture or ventilation). </div>
<div><br>I will send you and Ron an e-mail about solid fuels and "dirty
fuels"; you decide if it would add rancor or value to this List. I too prefer
gas, electricity, and solar (thermal or soon enough, induction cooking via
PV). There are markets for those. But until the 3 billion people we bleed our
hearts and research funds on get to that nirvana, reducing the PICs and the
drudgery of cooking should be the prime goals of research on solid fuels use.
Banning solid fuels should be limited to some areas and some
users. <br><br>
<div>Nikhil</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>Stoves
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