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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Rebecca and Tony,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Retorts are containers for making char
which contain fuel while it is heated, keeping the air out, and releasing
the wood gas from pyrolysis. A tin can with a lid with a small hole in it
will do. They char saw dust nicely if the center can get hot
enough. The retort can be placed inside any adequate fire. For a
TLUD it is placed in the fuel reactor chamber where it is in contact
with the fuel. I raise it off the grate 1cm which
helps to complete the charring of the saw dust. I don't know how
large it can be in relation to the size of the fuel chamber. The
can I use is about one sixth the cross sectional area of the fuel
chamber. The escaping gas adds to the secondary flame. This method
requires seperate fuel and the amount of saw dust char produced is limited to
the size of the retort.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>The Whirly Pinay probably is not
able to burn loose saw dust as a fuel, but does have room for a retort, either
within the fuel or above it in that large burner (the hole(s) would be at the
bottom of the retort if in the burner). To make a test retort,
open a can with a safety can opener. This will leave a rim on both the lid
and the can and the lid will fit firmly back onto the can. Remove the
food and make a small hole in the lid or can to let the wood gas
out. Put saw dust in the can, put the lid on it, and put it in
the fire. After the fire, if the can is still smoking the saw dust is
not finished charing and needs more heating. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>I searched the internet for saw dust burning stoves
and found several. Most use the central chimney method which burns the saw
dust to ash, no char. It would probably be fairly easy for you to
adapt the Whirly Pinay to use this method, with one central hole
instead of the grate. A stove called the Anila stove made char from the
saw dust, so if char briquettes are what you want, then that is the only
one I have found so far. It is actually a retort stove with the retort
surrounding the fire, instead of the retort being inside the fire.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>As for the rice husk TLUD, check <A
href="http://bioenergylists.org/stovesdoc/Belonio/Belonio_gasifier.pdf">http://bioenergylists.org/stovesdoc/Belonio/Belonio_gasifier.pdf</A>,
pages 13,26, 45 and 102 being of special interest for using saw dust
as a fuel. I do not know at this time how the rice husk TLUD could be
adapted for saw dust, but it seems possible. The document also
mentions the desire to develop a natural draft rice husk TLUD. It
seems to me that a rapid mixing combustor coupled with the sunken pot arrangment
with a chimney (like the one Dr. Larry Winiarsky designed for an Aprovecho
stove) might generate enough draft to get the primary air through the rice
husks. This might make a natural draft rice husk TLUD
possible.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>My best to all,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Kirk H.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
dir=ltr>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=vovers1@gmail.com href="mailto:vovers1@gmail.com">Tony Vovers</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 20, 2016 9:34
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Stoves] Charcoal from waste
- home cooking or other markets? (Re: Crispin, Anand Karve)</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>Kirk - I am quite interested to find out some more about your
idea of a retort with TLUD.
<DIV>In Bali here there is a bamboo factory which is burning off about 5m^3 of
sawdust every 2-3 days.</DIV>
<DIV>Maybe not going to set the world on fire with the volume but a shame to
see it going up in unused smoke.</DIV>
<DIV>Attempts to use the sawdust directly in institutional cookstoves have not
been too successful. The cooks keep switching back to wood.</DIV>
<DIV>We were starting to look at pelletizing machines (pellet mill) but there
is not a lot of interest to invest unless the value can be proven and the
volume is not huge.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>This has been an amazingly active thread which demonstrates the maze and
complexity of the real world requirements.</DIV>
<DIV>Unfortunately I couldn't cook on a 30m pyrolizing tower with a fluidized
bed.... but it would be lovely to see one in action!</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Could you describe a little better how or where you would construct the
retort while still cooking? I have had some contact with Prime stoves but so
far not actually seen one.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Many thanks </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><BR clear=all>
<DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_signature data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>Tony Vovers</DIV>
<DIV>+1 281 7381000 (VOIP)<BR>+62 (813) 3888 9062
(HP)</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 5:10 AM, kgharris <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:kgharris@sonic.net"
target=_blank>kgharris@sonic.net</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote><U></U>
<DIV bgcolor="#ffffff">
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Rebecca,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>This could make a good char buy back
program. Saw dust could be charred in small retorts in cook
stoves. The gas from the saw dust would add to the cook fire and the
char bought and brought to a central briquette making facility, or
used for other products (char is versatile). I don't know if the Eco
Kalan is able to receive a retort, perhaps it would need a TLUD. There
are two excellent TLUDs that I know of in that part of the world, the
Champion and the Prime (though the Prime has a central post that might
interfere). There are probably more. Another possibility is the
new rice husk stoves. Saw dust is similar in texture so perhaps
saw dust would work in a forced air rice hull stove with whatever adapting
is needed. This would allow loose, unprocessed (except for drying) saw
dust to be a fuel source. Servals recent success could be a model buy
back program to look at.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Kirk</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
dir=ltr>
<DIV>
<DIV class=h5>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B>From:</B> <A
title=ravermeer@telus.net href="mailto:ravermeer@telus.net"
target=_blank>Rebecca A. Vermeer</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target=_blank>Discussion of
biomass cooking stoves</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, October 12, 2016
8:37 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Stoves] Charcoal from
waste - home cooking or other markets? (Re: Crispin, Anand Karve)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<DIV>Dear Chris, Crispin,<BR></DIV>
<DIV>Do you know of a successful project where wood sawdust is converted
to charcoal and the charcoal processed into briquettes?</DIV>
<DIV>Regards,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Rebecca Vermeer</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<HR id=m_-4280728987976814159zwchr>
<DIV
style="FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; COLOR: #000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none"><B>From:
</B>"Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <<A
href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com"
target=_blank>crispinpigott@outlook.com</A>><BR><B>To: </B>"stoves <A
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>lists.bioenergylists.org</A>" <<A
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.<WBR>org</A>><BR><B>Sent:
</B>Tuesday, October 11, 2016 4:12:52 AM<BR><B>Subject: </B>Re: [Stoves]
Charcoal from waste - home cooking or other markets? (Re: Crispin, Anand
Karve)<BR>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); WIDTH: 100%; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"><BR>Dear
Chris</DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); WIDTH: 100%; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); WIDTH: 100%; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">Always
good to hear from you. The bamboo waste things sounds highly replicable in
many areas.</DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); WIDTH: 100%; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); WIDTH: 100%; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">I
will report separately on the experiments with biochar being made at the
CAU lab in Beijing, which is on an experimental farm. They have many
sources for the char and are looking into how it affects plant
growth. </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); WIDTH: 100%; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); WIDTH: 100%; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">One
of the source materials is sewage which contains plenty of
carbon. </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); WIDTH: 100%; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); WIDTH: 100%; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">Regards </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255); WIDTH: 100%; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">Crispin</DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; TEXT-DECORATION: none"></SPAN> </P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px 5px 0px 0px"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; TEXT-DECORATION: none">"Charcoal
from waste",<BR>i can report from 3 interesting projects in East Africa
and Southern Africa transforming waste to charcoal:</SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px 5px 0px 0px"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; TEXT-DECORATION: none"><BR>1)
A project in the East of Kenya near Lake Victoria is transforming bagasse
from sugarcane can into charcoal. They are using an "adam-retort" kiln for
the carbonization of the bio-waste.</SPAN> About 100kg to120kg (dry
weight) of bagasse fit into the wood chamber of about 2,5 (?)m³.</P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px 5px 0px 0px"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; TEXT-DECORATION: none">About
30kg of charcoal are harvested. Efficiency is about 30% (burnt waste fuel
in fire box not counted). The charcoal is shaped into briquettes, but I
have not details about it.<BR></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px 5px 0px 0px"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; TEXT-DECORATION: none"><STRONG><SPAN
class=m_-4280728987976814159cmp_parsed_email><A
href="mailto:mark.lung@eco2librium.com"
target=_blank>mark.lung@eco2librium.com</A></SPAN><A
class=m_-4280728987976814159cmp_parsed_url
href="http://www.eco2librum.net,,/" target=_blank>,</A> <A
href="http://www.eco2librium.net/"
target=_blank>http://www.eco2librium.net/</A><BR></STRONG></SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px 5px 0px 0px"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; TEXT-DECORATION: none"></SPAN> </P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px 5px 0px 0px"> </P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px 5px 0px 0px"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; TEXT-DECORATION: none">2)
Another interesting project is done in Kenya near Naivsha.<BR>I cite from
their homepage: "In urbanizing communities we install modern
container-based toilets in people's homes for free and charge a small
monthly fee to service them. Then, instead of dumping the waste, we
transform it into a clean burning alternative to charcoal. Our dependable,
user-focused, and vertically integrated sanitation services address the
full sanitation value chain and allow families living in urbanizing
communities throughout East Africa to live a modern and healthy
life.</SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px 5px 0px 0px"> </P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px 5px 0px 0px"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; TEXT-DECORATION: none">As
far as i understood the "pupe" is used as a binder to make charcoal
briquettes. The charcoal comes from twigs, roots and leaves which is a
left over from nearby flower farms. The twigs and leaves are carbonized in
an "adam-retort" kiln. Unfortunately i don't have any further
details.</SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px 5px 0px 0px"> <SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: small"
id=m_-4280728987976814159yiv4115818809yui_3_16_0_1_1476168021128_14351>Catherine
Berner | Technical Lead</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: small"
id=m_-4280728987976814159yiv4115818809yui_3_16_0_1_1476168021128_14353></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: small"
id=m_-4280728987976814159yiv4115818809yui_3_16_0_1_1476168021128_14354>
<A id=m_-4280728987976814159yiv4115818809yui_3_16_0_1_1476168021128_14356
class="m_-4280728987976814159cmp_parsed_email m_-4280728987976814159mceItemAnchor"
shape=rect rel=nofollow></A><A href="mailto:catherine@sanivation.com"
target=_blank>catherine@sanivation.com</A><BR
id=m_-4280728987976814159yiv4115818809yui_3_16_0_1_1476168021128_14358
clear=none></SPAN></P>
<DIV style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt" dir=ltr
id=m_-4280728987976814159yiv4115818809yui_3_16_0_1_1476168021128_14359><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: small"
id=m_-4280728987976814159yiv4115818809yui_3_16_0_1_1476168021128_14360><A
id=m_-4280728987976814159yiv4115818809yui_3_16_0_1_1476168021128_14361
class=m_-4280728987976814159cmp_parsed_url
href="http://www.sanivation.com/" shape=rect rel=nofollow
target=_blank>www.sanivation.com</A> |</SPAN></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px 5px 0px 0px"> </P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px 5px 0px 0px"> </P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px 5px 0px 0px">3) In <STRONG>Malawi /
Zimbabwe</STRONG> a project is using bamboo left overs for carbonization.
I am not sure if the bamboo-char is used itself or it is compacted into
briquettes. What's interesting is that they made essays with an industrial
steel retort and a brick built "adam-retort" kiln. The industrial steel
retort has less volume and its costs including transport <STRONG>300%
more</STRONG> that the brick built kiln<SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; TEXT-DECORATION: none"><BR></SPAN>and
they prefer the brick built kiln.</P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px 5px 0px 0px">(citation. "...<SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
id=m_-4280728987976814159yui_3_16_0_1_1476168021128_65111>The metal
retort stores approx. 330kg of bamboo (adam: dry or wet ??) and
yields about 80kg – 100kg charcoal but uses almost as much firewood as the
brick retort so efficiency conversion rate is low.</SPAN>.."</P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px 5px 0px 0px"> </P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px 5px 0px 0px">On the brick kiln i got the following
information, i assume the wood chamber has a volume of about 3m³ :<SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; TEXT-DECORATION: none"><BR></SPAN>"
..<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
id=m_-4280728987976814159yui_3_16_0_1_1476168021128_65160>It is very
successful. The community group built it entirely themselves on
provision of the materials. The recovery rate is <STRONG>very
high</STRONG> – approx. 800kg bamboo <SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
id=m_-4280728987976814159yui_3_16_0_1_1476168021128_65111>(adam: dry or
wet ??)</SPAN> giving <STRONG>250kg charcoal</STRONG> and using around
100kg firewood or less. (adam: 800kg --> 250kg, folllows 100kg
--> 31kg)</SPAN>..".</P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px 5px 0px 0px"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
id=m_-4280728987976814159yui_3_16_0_1_1476168021128_65372 lang=EN-US><A
id=m_-4280728987976814159yui_3_16_0_1_1476168021128_65374
class="m_-4280728987976814159cmp_parsed_email m_-4280728987976814159mceItemAnchor"
shape=rect rel=nofollow></A><A href="mailto:louise.bleach@googlemail.com"
target=_blank>louise.bleach@googlemail.com</A>, <WBR> </SPAN></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px 5px 0px 0px"><A
class=m_-4280728987976814159cmp_parsed_url
href="http://bio-innovation.org/"
target=_blank>http://bio-innovation.org</A></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px 5px 0px 0px"> </P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px 5px 0px 0px">Cheers</P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px 5px 0px 0px">Dr. Chris ADAM<SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; TEXT-DECORATION: none"><BR></SPAN><A
href="http://biocoal.org" target=_blank>biocoal.org</A></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px 5px 0px 0px"> </P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px 5px 0px 0px"> </P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; TEXT-DECORATION: none"></SPAN> </P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px"> </P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px"> </P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px">-----Original-Nachricht-----</P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px">Betreff: [Stoves] Charcoal from waste - home
cooking or other markets? (Re: Crispin, Anand Karve)</P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px">Datum: 2016-10-04T16:43:48+0200</P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px">Von: "Nikhil Desai" <<A
href="mailto:pienergy2008@gmail.com"
target=_blank>pienergy2008@gmail.com</A>></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px">An: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <<A
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.<WBR>org</A>></P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px"> </P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px"> </P>
<P style="MARGIN: 0px"> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>Moderator: I changed the subject line. This is in response to
Crispin's comment about Anand Karve's work.
<DIV>---------------
<DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Crispin: "<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">That is what is so inspiring
about AD Karve?s work on charring waste </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">biomass to produce a high quality fuel. He even
produced the extruder and </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">the
Sarai stove to go with it. That is a museum quality piece of work -
to </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">be studied...
"<BR></SPAN><BR>I take your word for it, but I also had this suspicion a
few years ago that what Anand Karve was proposing in terms of converting
waste biomass for charcoal was worth more attention, not primarily as a
fuel choice issue but as a waste management issue. In dry regions such as
much of India, leaf and tree waste along with other open biomass waste is
a major problem in municipal waste management. Why, just driving by
Gandhinagar - the capital of Gujarat state where I lived - a few months
ago I saw huge piles of leaf waste in numerous parks that have been
created by the state government to make the city "green". All those leaves
will be burned in the open, contributing to air pollution (not reported in
peer-reviewed literature so it must not exist) that damages biota health
here and now. On the other hand, such burning will release organic
aerosols that supposedly cool the atmosphere, so it is most definitely
"green" for the "global environment" advocates. <BR><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12px"><BR>Open organic waste - including leaves, tree
debris, food waste - is a huge headache for local governments. On the
other hand, urban trees have multiple benefits including <A
href="https://www.accessscience.com/content/urban-tree-leaves-remove-fine-particulate-air-pollution/BR0116141"
target=_blank>air filtering</A>, favorable changes in ambient temperatures
(thus impacting building energy demand; I did some work for Cinncinnati
Gas and Electric climate options 20+ years ago), and I also happen to like
urban forestry, gardening, food production (if land, water, and air
quality so permit). <BR><BR>A new paradigm of urban/peri-urban
biomass production, utilization, and waste management needs to emerge, and
energy analysts have much to offer. </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12px"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">Unless they leave the field to WHO and
EPA. <BR><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">The question is, do Indian customers
care to advance to cleaner charcoal or convenient LPG? <BR><BR>As I
mentioned in the previous post, the commercial potential may not lie in
household cooking but in water heating (peri-urban, rural) and
commercial/institutional cooking and heating
(water/space). </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12px"></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">****<BR><BR>Crispin: "But he is
promoting charcoal consumption - very offensive to some.
Shall </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">we forgive him too?
:)"</SPAN><BR>
<DIV><BR>Asking forgiveness from sinners of cooked science? You must be
joking, Mr. Pemberton-Pigott. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I note your emoticon, but this is no laughing matter. I think it's
time to stop blaming direct use of solid fuels for presumed envionmental
ills.<BR><BR>It's the process that matters. Converting primary solid fuels
into an energy service can be "dirty process" or "clean (or cleaner)
process." <BR><BR>Extending Kirk Smith et al (AREE 2000 on India) to all
processes of solid fuel transformation, not just final combustion, and
counting all emissions, could well show that investments at all steps of
the fuel cycle can deliver small-scale direct use of solid fuels at a
lower emission rates than the "traditional" processes (unprocessed solid
fuels with relatively uncontrolled combustion and no emissions capture or
ventilation). </DIV>
<DIV><BR>I will send you and Ron an e-mail about solid fuels and "dirty
fuels"; you decide if it would add rancor or value to this List. I too
prefer gas, electricity, and solar (thermal or soon enough, induction
cooking via PV). There are markets for those. But until the 3 billion
people we bleed our hearts and research funds on get to that nirvana,
reducing the PICs and the drudgery of cooking should be the prime goals of
research on solid fuels use. Banning solid fuels should be limited to some
areas and some users. <BR><BR>
<DIV>Nikhil</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV><BR>______________________________<WBR>_________________<BR>Stoves
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