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<p>Now I see that the note I had been composing with the falsely
posited question about the nature of the correct taxonomy of the
stove hadn't been sent. I asked the question : "Isn't this a
TLDD?" but was mistaken in some of my photo interpretation. This
confusion/mistakenness hopefully corrected... LOL on me.</p>
<p>Ronald von daisteinekuhindernähediesesflachenstein(es)</p>
<p><br>
</p>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 25.10.2016 04:51, Crispin
Pemberton-Pigott wrote:<br>
</div>
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cite="mid:YQXPR01MB0229AE18E2F9C4B43077A94CB1A80@YQXPR01MB0229.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM"
type="cite">
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Dear Paul</div>
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Discussions with you on terminology are always entertaining. </div>
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The 'draft' part of the terminology does not refer to the air
flow it refers to the gas flow. </div>
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<br>
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You are trying to turn a direction of the gas into a direction
of the air through the fuel. </div>
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<br>
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text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
Nurhuda's wood stove and Prime's pellet stove (both designed by
Nurhuda) are TLUD's not because the wood stove has air
cross-drafting into the fuel, nor because the pellet stove has
air updrafting in a tube, then cross-drafting into the fuel. </div>
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<br>
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They are TLUD,s because gases produced in the fuel are updrafted
and combusted vertically above the fuel. </div>
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A crossdraft combusted has a horizontal flame. Examples are the
Japanese FLOX burners, oil furnaces, GTZ 7 Series (now TJ4 and
KG4) and a lot of tube boilers. </div>
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text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
An end lit cross draft ELCD is a type of solid fuel crossdraft
including the TJ1 and 2, plus the MM2 Mongolian 'traditional'
stove. </div>
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<br>
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text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
The characteristic of the fuel being lit on top and the draft
pulling the flame up and away from the fuel makes it top lit
(according to where it is lit) and updraft (according to the
direction of the gas/flames). </div>
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<br>
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The argument that the direction of the air arriving at the
combustion site doesn't fly. One would have to recategorize oil
furnaces with horizontal flames and horizontal exits depending
on whether the air arrived and met the fuel from below, or
above, or the side. </div>
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<br>
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Would a Vesto be a downdraft stove? Of course not, the flames
are upwards. It is always updraft. <span style="font-size:
initial; line-height: initial; text-align: initial;"> Can it
be operated as bottom lit or top lit? Of course. In top lit
mode ALL the air is provided from the side and none from
below. </span></div>
<div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri,
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text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<span style="font-size: initial; line-height: initial;
text-align: initial;"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri,
'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<span style="font-size: initial; line-height: initial;
text-align: initial;">A TLUD pyrolyser can be operated on its
side. That makes it a cross draft pyrolyser. Similarly it can
be operated upside down (town gas) in which case it is a
bottom lit downdraft pyrolyser. BLDD.</span></div>
<div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri,
'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<span style="font-size: initial; line-height: initial;
text-align: initial;"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri,
'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<span style="font-size: initial; line-height: initial;
text-align: initial;">A good example of changing the air is
that a BLDD gasifier can have all the primary air arriving
right at the grate from the side. None of the air passes
through the fuel. </span></div>
<div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri,
'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<span style="font-size: initial; line-height: initial;
text-align: initial;"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri,
'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<span style="font-size: initial; line-height: initial;
text-align: initial;">In the case of the TJ4 the air is all
from below and the pyrolysis starts on the bottom of the
grate. This allows the stove to burn dust and chips which
completely block the air passing through the fuel load. </span></div>
<div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri,
'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<span style="font-size: initial; line-height: initial;
text-align: initial;"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri,
'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<span style="font-size: initial; line-height: initial;
text-align: initial;">Altanbek has achieved the same thing:
the fuel doesn't permit air to flow through it but has
nonetheless achieved a top lit updraft flame. I can't say no
one did this before, but certainly I haven't seen one before. </span></div>
<div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri,
'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<span style="font-size: initial; line-height: initial;
text-align: initial;"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri,
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text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<span style="font-size: initial; line-height: initial;
text-align: initial;">Regards </span></div>
<div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri,
'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<span style="font-size: initial; line-height: initial;
text-align: initial;">Crispin </span></div>
<div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri,
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text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<span style="font-size: initial; line-height: initial;
text-align: initial;"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri,
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text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<span style="font-size: initial; line-height: initial;
text-align: initial;"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri,
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text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<span style="font-size: initial; line-height: initial;
text-align: initial;"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri,
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<span style="line-height: initial;"> </span></div>
<div id="_originalContent" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255,
255);">Crispin, (with apologies to everyone else.)<br>
<br>
Come on Crispin, get off it. You are just causing confusion
regarding the estabilished terminology!!! It is easy to
mis-use words and descriptive acronyms, but you of all people
should know better about what TLUD signifies. Do not put
yourself down with such silly talk!!<br>
<br>
Besides, in your next message (addressed to Andrew and the
Listserv), YOU wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">It looks and acts like a TLUD but has
zero air coming from below.
<br>
</blockquote>
How can you imply that "zero air coming from below" is somehow
an "up draft"? And then to call it a TLUD?<br>
<br>
You are a friend and very talented, but get real. Please stop
confusing the terminology that is getting accepted and
understood.
<br>
<br>
There can be up draft stoves and top lit stoves. But the
acronym "TLUD" is something quite specific, and the migratory
pyrolytic front (MPF) is its very distinctive characteristic.
If MPF is not clearly evident, a stove should not be called a
TLUD.<br>
<br>
Enough. I hope there is silence about this subject. But do go
ahead and talk about the new kind of Sawdust stove.<br>
<br>
Paul<!--end of _originalContent --></div>
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