<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p>Paul,</p>
<p>I publicly apologize _here_ because you're making the big deal
about it, while Crispin is actually trying to keep a clear
taxonomy, which, due to your predilection for _geography_ is kind
of like the difference between rocky or sandy or grassy
coastlines. <br>
<br>
It is quite clearly a TLUD. <br>
<br>
Primary air comes down the pipe connecting the handle to the top,
which acts as a holder for the mechanical forcing of the migrating
flame front. My apology has to do with my initial
understanding/confusion as to the placement of the secondary air
holes, which I thought were being fed by the central tube,
allowing airflow into the part of the migrating part below its
"lid". However, in actual fact the secondary air comes from holes
in the outer container, which also acts as a chimney with all gas
flow ending at the top, which clearly makes it an up draught. <br>
</p>
<p>I agree with Crispin, (with apologies to everyone but you on this
point) that it doesn't matter where the primary air comes from and
agree with you that the migratory front is (kind of) part of the
general definition, but only for those stoves in actuality that
are not robust enough in terms of fuel variability to go beyond
simple batch loading. If you put fuel in the top, it's "TL" that's
why Crispin is asking for the "pyrolytic" variable in the
taxonomy. <br>
</p>
<p>regards,</p>
<p>Ronald von gesternwarfönbayern</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 25.10.2016 03:01, Paul Anderson
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:a02e3707-db31-432f-7b15-b9b6b26b1e66@ilstu.edu"
type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
Crispin, (with apologies to everyone else.)<br>
<br>
Come on Crispin, get off it. You are just causing confusion
regarding the estabilished terminology!!! It is easy to mis-use
words and descriptive acronyms, but you of all people should know
better about what TLUD signifies. Do not put yourself down with
such silly talk!!<br>
<br>
Besides, in your next message (addressed to Andrew and the
Listserv), YOU wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">It looks and acts like a TLUD but has zero
air coming from below. <br>
</blockquote>
How can you imply that "zero air coming from below" is somehow an
"up draft"? And then to call it a TLUD?<br>
<br>
You are a friend and very talented, but get real. Please stop
confusing the terminology that is getting accepted and
understood. <br>
<br>
There can be up draft stoves and top lit stoves. But the acronym
"TLUD" is something quite specific, and the migratory pyrolytic
front (MPF) is its very distinctive characteristic. If MPF is not
clearly evident, a stove should not be called a TLUD.<br>
<br>
Enough. I hope there is silence about this subject. But do go
ahead and talk about the new kind of Sawdust stove.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/24/2016 4:23 PM, Crispin
Pemberton-Pigott wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:YTOPR01MB0235019BE8D1F4BB0F588D07B1A90@YTOPR01MB0235.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
<meta content="text/html; charset=Windows-1252">
<div style="width:100%; font-size:initial;
font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;
color:rgb(31,73,125); text-align:initial;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> Dear Paul</div>
<div style="width:100%; font-size:initial;
font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;
color:rgb(31,73,125); text-align:initial;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> <br>
</div>
<div style="width:100%; font-size:initial;
font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;
color:rgb(31,73,125); text-align:initial;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> It is definitely a TLUD
but it is not a TLUD pyrolyser which is a subset of all things
top lit and updraft. </div>
<div style="width:100%; font-size:initial;
font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;
color:rgb(31,73,125); text-align:initial;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> <br>
</div>
<div style="width:100%; font-size:initial;
font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;
color:rgb(31,73,125); text-align:initial;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> Perhaps the TLUD builders
have slipped into using the shorter form of the name. </div>
<div style="width:100%; font-size:initial;
font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;
color:rgb(31,73,125); text-align:initial;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> <br>
</div>
<div style="width:100%; font-size:initial;
font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;
color:rgb(31,73,125); text-align:initial;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> Couldn't you have:</div>
<div style="width:100%; font-size:initial;
font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;
color:rgb(31,73,125); text-align:initial;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> TLUD</div>
<div style="width:100%; font-size:initial;
font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;
color:rgb(31,73,125); text-align:initial;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> TLUD gasifier</div>
<div style="width:100%; font-size:initial;
font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;
color:rgb(31,73,125); text-align:initial;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> TLUD pyrolyser (with
various levels of carbon gasification)<span
style="font-size:initial; text-align:initial;
line-height:initial">?</span></div>
<div style="width:100%; font-size:initial;
font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;
color:rgb(31,73,125); text-align:initial;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> <br>
</div>
<div style="width:100%; font-size:initial;
font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;
color:rgb(31,73,125); text-align:initial;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> I have not tested it yet
with a meter to see how well it burns but it definitely
works. </div>
<div style="width:100%; font-size:initial;
font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;
color:rgb(31,73,125); text-align:initial;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> <span
style="font-size:initial; line-height:initial;
text-align:initial"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="width:100%; font-size:initial;
font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;
color:rgb(31,73,125); text-align:initial;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> <span
style="font-size:initial; line-height:initial;
text-align:initial">It is replacing a huge square, almost
cubic steel TLUD loaded with coal which seemed to have no
secondary air and no flame space. They said it worked for a
long time on a load of fuel but was 'very smoky'. It didn't
even look like a stove. I thought it was a storage bin. </span></div>
<div style="width:100%; font-size:initial;
font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;
color:rgb(31,73,125); text-align:initial;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> <br>
</div>
<div style="width:100%; font-size:initial;
font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;
color:rgb(31,73,125); text-align:initial;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> Regards</div>
<div style="width:100%; font-size:initial;
font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;
color:rgb(31,73,125); text-align:initial;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> Crispin </div>
<div style="width:100%; font-size:initial;
font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;
color:rgb(31,73,125); text-align:initial;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> <br>
</div>
<div style="width:100%; font-size:initial;
font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;
color:rgb(31,73,125); text-align:initial;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> <br>
</div>
<div style="width:100%; font-size:initial;
font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;
color:rgb(31,73,125); text-align:initial;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> <br>
</div>
<div>Crispin, Andrew, and all,<br>
<br>
I am glad that it works, and I am not totally sure what type
of combustion method it uses, except that it does not fit the
description of a TLUD stove, which is characterized by a
migrating pyrolytic front (MPF). And a TLUD does not have
"primary air supplied from above."<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/24/2016 1:28 PM, Andrew
Heggie wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 24 October 2016 at 09:57,
Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <span dir="ltr"> <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com"
target="_blank">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);
padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-CA">
<div class="m_-4536210190409395105WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white">Summary:
It is a TLUD with primary and secondary air
supplied from above. The stove is used to
heat the office of the welding shop.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"> </p>
Crispin<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Unless I have misread your description I would
say this is a Top Lit Cross Draught.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>It's similar to a device I made to burn stumps
out of the ground using a ford tractor wheel but I
used an old vacuum cleaner to Blast the air in.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>AJH <br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre>_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>