<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">List and Nikhil, Crispin</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>This is the promised expansion of my last-night's message telling Nikhil that I object strongly to his weird anti-stove development comments. Since mine he has put 6 more into the system, generally including my name; I will add a little below on those as well.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>To summarize what I am objecting to in Nikhil’s behavior on this list (including much more than the following message):</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>a. Essentially no messages that advance stove science (the word science being used here intentionally)</div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>b. Negative comments about especially GACC (Global Alliance for Clean Cookstoves) and especially its CEO (Radha Muthiah)- about which/whom I have seen no evidence he knows much.</div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>c. Negative comments on Hillary Clinton, whose work on stoves has been wonderful - and I never saw mentioned during the campaign</div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>d. Nonsense statements about DALY’s - a standard method in the health community for addressing health impacts of all kinds - and especially stoves (My last message listed all the acronyms in this world - with cites.)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span> If Nikhil continues in this anti-stove-development-vein, I ask the stove list moderators to put his comments into a review status. This would thereby limit his remarks to those that help, rather than harm, stove development. The last thing we need on this list is someone driving people away from this list and from supporting stove development.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 7, 2016, at 11:06 PM, Ronal W. Larson <<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net" class="">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">List, cc Nikhil, Crispin et al</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>I consider this to be the single least professional document I have yet seen on this list. This is to tell anyone agreeing with Nikhil that his rants and ill will towards (apparently) everyone working on stoves do not coincide with anyone else’s thinking that I know in this business. He has some strange mental aberration that is beyond my comprehension.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>It is too late at night to go into detail - but I will do so tomorrow - on at least the 28 emphasized words/topics below. I repeat - I am embarrassed that anyone would treat honest stove research in the way he has done below (and many earlier times). There must be some explanation for his ill-well. Anyone know? </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>I repeat - anyone who believes all this animosity - please wait until you hear the other side.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Ron </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 7, 2016, at 1:27 PM, Traveller <<a href="mailto:miata98@gmail.com" class="">miata98@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">Ah, another report on "scientific" advance. I see scientists <u class=""><b class="">regressing</b></u></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL1: insulting to many on this list. Petty.</b><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"> to <b class=""><u class="">infantilism</u></b>. <br class=""></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL2: Ditto.</b><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><br class="">Andrew asks, "Is it because there are other vectors of the illnesses linked to poverty?" (<a href="http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38160671" class="">Do Smoke-free Stoves Really Save Lives</a>, BBC News 7 December 2016) <br class=""><br class="">Possibly, as Roger has pointed out. <br class=""><br class="">Any more details depend on the <u class=""><b class="">price</b></u>. </div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL3: Unclear meaning. I am afraid Nikhil is saying that consultants will need to be paid more to give good advice, which does not apply to the stove contractors I know. Thanks for Andrew and Samson taking this seriously.</b></div><div><b class=""><br class=""></b></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">I have been surprised so often over the last 15-20 years, I stopped being surprised. <br class=""><br class="">For one, the Malawi study "was expected to show children are less likely to die of pneumonia if they live in a home where food is cooked on a smoke-free stove rather than an open fire."</div><div class="gmail_quote"><br class="">Ah, <u class=""><b class="">forget</b></u></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL4: Here, telling Andrew (see last message below for the lead into this story) there is no need to try to understand the reports in the BBC piece)</b></div><div><b class=""><br class=""></b><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"> about "other vectors". The very premise is <u class=""><b class="">presumptuous beyond common sens</b></u>e.</div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL5: (d,f). This is an insult to everyone working on stove health issues (neither Andrew or I are). The next two questions are meant to insult a whole slew of medical experts -who know perfectly well how to answer such questions.</b></div><div><b class=""><br class=""></b><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"> What does "live in a home" mean, and what does "less likely to die of pneumonia" mean? Where do these <u class=""><b class="">pundits</b></u></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL6: The “<u class="">pundits</u>” he is referring to are 15 physicians in the UK, with Dr. Kevin Mortimer (see below) as the lead author. See the whole article at: </b><a href="http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(16)32507-7/fulltext" class="">http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(16)32507-7/fulltext</a><b class=""> The article answers the next question perfectly well.</b></div><div><b class=""><br class=""></b><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"> get their baseline data and the methods of testing likelihoods for different samples? <br class=""><br class="">Kevin Mortimer says,""Exposure to household air pollution is a problem of poverty. If you're not poor, you're not exposed." <br class=""><br class="">What <b class=""><u class="">nonsense</u></b>.</div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL7: “Nonsense” is obviously intended as an insult to 15 professionals, specializing in tropical medicine, with a specialty in stoves and health. I guess with a hope to stope their further work.</b><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"> Emissions from uncontrolled combustion of fuels occur within "homes" as well as other cooking places, and they spread "outdoors" where exposures can occur to the poor as well as non-poor.<br class=""><br class=""><a href="http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(16)32507-7/fulltext" class="">They</a> set out with an <u class=""><b class="">untenable, ill-defined</b></u></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL8: The hypothesis seemed fine to me - and this list has had several responses on why the hypothesis failed. I can think of a lot more - but that is not pertinent in this message. The point is Nikhil has not explained why “untenable” and "ill-defined”</b></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"> hypothesis and put 8500+ Malawian households under the researchers’ eyes (no data on researchers' eyes or <u class=""><b class="">brains</b></u>)</div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL9: Only intended to impugn the (highly qualified) authors (the Lancet is one of the world’s leading medical journals). </b></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"> - "10 543 children from 8470 households contributed 15 991 child-years of follow-up data to the intention-to-treat analysis." They "found no evidence".</div><div class="gmail_quote"><br class="">It is <u class=""><b class="">amazing</b></u></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL10: The reporter Gill probably had no choice in these photos or their placement. Both photos do a good job of letting the BBCs readers (and viewers?) know that cooking in developing countries is much different from cooking in the UK. I take this to me a slam at a reporter who did a good job in getting a Lancet story out to people who would otherwise never see it. I wish the Denver Post did something similar once in a while. (Beeb means BBC)</b></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"> that the first photo in the Beeb story is of a closed smokey kitchen with open fire, and the other is of a one-pot "improved stove" OUTSIDE the home. Maybe Gill wanted to<b class=""><u class=""> allege</u></b></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL11: All parts of this sentence seem intended to be derogatory; Reporter Gill is smart enough to know that indoor and outdoor cooking have very different health impacts. I think someone else is doing the alleging.</b></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"> that even outdoor cooking with improved stove does not yield any measurable health benefits. <br class=""><br class=""><br class="">********<br class=""><br class="">BBC wonders <span style="border-style:initial;border-color:initial;font-variant-numeric:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:1.375" class=""><b class="">"Where does this leave a huge UN-backed project.. </b></span><strong class=""><font color="#404040" face="helmet, freesans, helvetica, arial, sans-serif" class=""><span style="border-style:initial;border-color:initial;font-variant-numeric:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:16px;line-height:1.375" class="">"</span></font></strong>. <br class=""><br class="">Depends on what the meaning of "backed" is and what the meaning of UN is. Yes, some unrecognized <u class=""><b class="">Uber Nuts</b></u></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL12: Nikhil: I consider this the worst putdown of all that I am commenting on in this message. Apparently you think this is great humor, but I perceive it as harmful in the extreme. If “Nuts” was an attempt at humor, it fails at the sixth grade level.</b></div><div><b class=""> </b><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"> - otherwise known as <u class=""><b class="">GACC</b></u></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL13: For all who don’t know GACC, please go to </b><a href="http://cleancookstoves.org/about/our-team/" class="">http://cleancookstoves.org/about/our-team/</a> <b class=""> to see photos of 29 staffers. I have met briefly only 5 or 6 and only expect one to know me now. My interactions with all (mostly at ETHOS meetings) has left me impressed. They do not deserve to be coupled with the word “NUTS”. At this GACC web site, there is plenty of other information on what they are doing.</b></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">, a project with no legal personhood - have been feeding “Annual Reports", quarterly reports, CEO's golden words to the <u class=""><b class="">gullible</b></u></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL14: I fail to see any importance to the idea of “legal personhood". The CEO in question is GACC’S Radha Muthiah. For anyone on this list to call any media “gullible” seems intended to hurt all that this list stands for. We need the press badly; from my perspective they are doing a fine job under very difficult circumstances (I am objecting to the views on the press of one recent Presidential candidate). For anyone from the press reading this, I suspect </b><b class="">Nikhil is NOT speaking </b><b class="">for most on this list.</b></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"> media, but that amounts to<u class=""><b class=""> glib propaganda</b></u>, nothing else.</div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL15: Notice that NO examples of glibness and propaganda are given. Some examples? I interpret this to be a rejection by Nikhil of everything going on to advance stove development - which is already pitifully low by any sort of moral standard.</b></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"> Now that Antonio Guterres is at the helm of the United Nations, he should formally resign from this<u class=""><b class=""> <a href="http://cleancookstoves.org/about/our-team/" class="">gang o</a>f Hillary lovers</b></u> </div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL16: I can only interpret this as his strong political statement more on Hillary than GACC - which has no place on this list. I do not recall any prior reference to politics ever on this list - which is intended to be helpful to every part of the world, not the US. I am extremely proud of the fact than the new head of the UN has been associated with GACC - and so hope he stays with GACC, to whatever extent is possible.</b></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">who have <u class=""><b class="">nothing better</b></u></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL17: I suggest Nikhil is NOT an expert on what GACC is about. I attended their meeting in Cambodia and found it to be exceptionally well run. Since the funding now is hugely larger than a few years ago, we should all be very thankful that the UN Foundation (mostly funded by Ted Turner - with projects only with national governments) is the home of GACC. The UN Foundation has excellent status around the world - which explains a lot of their fund-raising success.</b></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"> to do than host fine-wine-and-dine opportunities. Now that the South Lawn is beyond reach after 44 days, I would be <u class=""><b class="">happy</b></u></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL18: GACC is a lot more than what Nikhil (again) disparages. Googling “Comet Ping Pong” led me to a D.C. story about a man with a gun who believed a preposterous fake story about cutting up children (by Hillary). I consider it unbelievable that Nikhil would being this onto our list and talk about “premature deaths”. This story is obscene.</b></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"> to serve them wood-fired pizzas at Comet Ping Pong, and measure their pneumonias and premature deaths. Beer for $10 a pint. <br class=""><br class="">Wait a minute! <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaaction/about/funding" class="">BBC Action</a> is a NEW <a href="http://cleancookstoves.org/about/news/11-27-2016-new-partners-november-2016.html" class="">IMPLEMENTER PARTNER</a> of GACC and is funded by the same <u class=""><b class="">delusional</b></u></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">RWL19: This “delusional” seems as harmful for me as the above put-down of the UN. I hope all the donors to GACC hear loudly that most of the stove community greatly appreciates their caring about stove improvement even if a few on this list disagree. I know little about BBC Action, but their site says: </b><span style="font-variant-ligatures: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><b class="">“</b><font color="#6a6a6a" class=""><b class="">BBC</b></font></span><span style="color: rgb(84, 84, 84); font-variant-ligatures: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""> <b class="">Media </b></span><b class=""><span style="color: rgb(106, 106, 106); font-variant-ligatures: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">Action</span><span style="color: rgb(84, 84, 84); font-variant-ligatures: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""> is the </span><span style="color: rgb(106, 106, 106); font-variant-ligatures: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">BBC’s</span><span style="color: rgb(84, 84, 84); font-variant-ligatures: normal; orphans: 2; widows: 2; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""> international development charity”. In my mind they chose in GACC one of the best possible ways to encourage international development. Again, I hope all understand how seriously Nikhil is hurting our international development efforts on this list.</span></b></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"> donors who fund GACC (DfID, Govt of Norway), some more (US State Dept, EU) including some private companies (BMB Mott McDonald, DAI) who do “consulting" (which can mean expertise <u class=""><b class="">cooked</b></u> to recipe). <br class=""></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL20: I suppose Nikhil thinks this “cooking” double entendre is clever; someone wanting to kill stove programs will love to quote this list about expertise being cooked. (And for what reason is it "cooked”?)</b></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><br class="">And, of course, by those <u class=""><b class="">saviors</b></u></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL21: another word chosen only to diminish our efforts. I have no idea what “Golden Pills” refers to.</b></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"> of the world looking for Golden Pills and fund the NIH/CDC kind of poverty <u class=""><b class="">porn</b></u> by, ahem, "research", viz. Bill and Melinda Gateses. <br class=""></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL22: Anyone agree that Nikhil’s view that stove research is “porn”? I did a search on the GACC site for “Gates” and came up with 15 entries. Anyone able to identify those that are porn (or “ahem” research)?</b><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><br class="">DfID also funded this “study”, <u class=""><b class="">passed off</b></u> </div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL23: I have no idea what “this study” refers to, but clearly Nikhil found it was not “hard science”. Nikhil: specifically which “study” was “passed off”?<br class=""></b><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">as “hard science" to those <u class=""><b class="">gullible</b></u> </div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL24: I need to know which report DfID supported, before agreeing that I am among the gullible. I suspect this indicates that Nikhil doesn’t know that DfID supported about 30 studies.</b></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">enough. Once you <u class=""><b class="">imbibe</b></u></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL25: Another loaded word - whose only purpose I can see is to further demean the work of GACC. The term “GBD brew” refers to a major medically-based 2015 update study whose site I gave earlier today: </b><a href="http://thelancet.com/gbd" class="">http://thelancet.com/gbd</a> . </div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"> the GBD brew and get all <u class=""><b class="">mushy-headed</b></u>, “hard science" is incarnated in BBC stories. </div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL26: I take this to be another way to discredit everything related to stoves and science. Nikhil is probably trying to be clever in referring to a tragic cult situation in 1978 - see </b><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones" class="">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones</a> . <b class="">If not this- what is he talking about? And why?</b></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><br class=""><u class=""><b class="">Blind</b></u> pundits <b class=""><u class="">parroting</u></b> <u class=""><b class="">platitudes</b></u> to the public.</div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL27,28: I guess the blind are those at GACC, or maybe it is anyone, like myself, who applaud the GACC “platitudes”. I guess “parroting” is meant to say that there is nothing new and original. I have not been sufficiently following this GACC work - and so I will try to do some summarizing ASAP.</b></div><div><b class=""><br class=""></b></div><div><b class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Apologies for being long-winded. The subject matter seemed worthy of the time involved. Basically I am mad.</b></div><div><br class=""></div><div>Ron</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"> <br class=""><br class="">Nikhil<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br class=""> <br class="">
<br class="">
------------------------------<br class="">
<br class="">
Message: 5<br class="">
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2016 17:07:06 +0000 (UTC)<br class="">
From: Roger Samson <<a href="mailto:rogerenroute@yahoo.ca" class="">rogerenroute@yahoo.ca</a>><br class="">
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br class="">
<<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" class="">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.<wbr class="">org</a>><br class="">
Subject: Re: [Stoves] report with dissapointing results from cleaner<br class="">
cookstoves<br class="">
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:2117102759.1561055.1481130426403@mail.yahoo.com" class="">2117102759.1561055.<wbr class="">1481130426403@mail.yahoo.com</a>><br class="">
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8<br class="">
<br class="">
Hi Andrew and all<br class="">
<br class="">
I would have to read in more details the study and causes of pneumonia. However it is known that most forms of pneumonia are linked to viral or bacterial infections that spread from person to person.<br class="">
<br class="">
Its likely that indoor air pollution is not a primary cause of pneumonia its weak immune systems and crowded living conditions ( like TB). If you look at community priorities indoor air pollution is not high on their priority list compared to accessing better nutrition and health care. You might be better off to ventilate houses or work on improving food security and nutrition in communities than installing expensive cook stoves if your target is pneumonia.<br class=""><br class="">
<br class="">
regards<br class="">
<br class="">
Roger Samson<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
------------------------------<wbr class="">--------------<br class="">
On Wed, 12/7/16, Andrew Heggie <<a href="mailto:aj.heggie@gmail.com" class="">aj.heggie@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br class="">
<br class="">
Subject: [Stoves] report with dissapointing results from cleaner cookstoves<br class="">
To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" class="">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.<wbr class="">org</a>><br class="">
Received: Wednesday, December 7, 2016, 11:45 AM<br class="">
<br class="">
<a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-38160671" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/<wbr class="">magazine-38160671</a><br class="">
<br class="">
It's a surprising result and I would like to know why the cleaner stoves used did not return a lower incidence of respiratory infections.<br class="">
<br class="">
Is is because there are other vectors of the? illnesses linked to poverty?<br class="">
<br class="">
The two? good results were that the cleaner stoves appear to be safer and more economical to use.<br class="">
<br class="">
AJH<br class=""> <br class="">
-----------------------<br class=""> <br class="">
</blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div>
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