<html><head></head><body lang="en-US" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); line-height: initial;"> <div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Dear Mikhil and fellow stovers:</div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Very useful talk about the incredible value of being a sophisticated holist. Gillian Tett's experience as a village level anthropologist in one of the Stan's deeply consientized her about the holes and zones of silence in peoples' cognitive maps of reality and the positive and negative consequences of things unspoken when unreality - let's call it dark matter - interferes with our collective ability to communicate and act in a rational manner. </div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">The stove community is a virtual tribe. The EPA regulators and World Bankers and WHO standard setters are functional (and also rather dysfunctional) power holders (commissars?) who have more corporate existence than the virtual community of dispersed stovers who are a diverse collection of different cultures and profession sharing a common interest in fires, fuels, stoves, and stove operators, stove makers, stove testing, etc. </div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">The power holding, standard setting, and money spending stove "bosses" often appear to be like emperors who insist on parading about naked because they have been hoodwinked by their clever (theiving) tailors. Completing the parable, the big shots in high places have been deluded by their professional advisers (secular priesthood) AKA stove experts, economists, managers, and hangers on. They are clothed in see through garmets that are full of holes. </div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Until the dispersed virtual stove community of experts and practitioners gets desperate enough to overcome it's present disunity and agree on metrics and standards, the clever priesthood of stoves and their tribal rulers will remain large and in charge: "Stovers of the world unite.....we have nothing to loss but our powerlessness!"</div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">How do radical paradigm shifts in science take place in the internet age? Do we need a disaster equivalent to the bursting of housing mortgage bubble to occur in the stove world before we wake up and begin dealing with stove realities in a holistic and conflict resolving fashion? Surely the shivering multitudes of the planet deserve better from us "stove experts" than our endless carping and scrumming. </div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Unfortunately there are no shortcuts to scientific progress and if we want to discover the whole truth about the best coal stoves for the shivering people of Kygyristsn then we will have to put our heads together as a tribe of truth seeking stovers, be civil with each other, listen and learn our way forward. </div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">That is my 5 cents worth (inflation has reduced the value of 2 cents worth to 5 cents).</div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Cecil the Cook</div> <div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></div> <div style="font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.</div> <table width="100%" style="background-color:white;border-spacing:0px;"> <tbody><tr><td colspan="2" style="font-size: initial; text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"> <div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in; font-family: Tahoma, 'BB Alpha Sans', 'Slate Pro'; font-size: 10pt;"> <div><b>From: </b>Traveller</div><div><b>Sent: </b>Sunday, December 11, 2016 1:23 AM</div><div><b>To: </b>Cecil Cook</div><div><b>Reply To: </b>miata98@gmail.com</div><div><b>Cc: </b>Discussion of biomass cooking stoves</div><div><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Stoves] Offtopic: Malawi and responsibility (Andrew, Roger)</div></div></td></tr></tbody></table><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(186, 188, 209); border-top-width: 1pt; font-size: initial; text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"></div><br><div id="_originalContent" style=""><div dir="ltr">Dear Cecil: <br><br><div class="gmail_extra">I suggest listening to <a href="https://soundcloud.com/tim-harford-economics/gillian-tett-the-anthropology">Gillian Tett: The Anthropology of Economics 16 Jul 2013</a>.<br><br>Tett is a major writer for the Financial Times. She talks about how some people deify computer models without thinking about human beings. <br><br>I am afraid that is the case with ISO/IWA, WHO/BAMG exercises. <br><br>I wrote of this "box mentality" before -- reducing stoves to fireboxes and human beings to lungs. Running computer models about oxidation without bothering about fuel chemistry, human biology, society, culture, food, sex, production, consumption. <br><br>"Scientist" is a job category, like "lawyer", "sweeper", "fixer". Not everything that scientists do is science. <br><br>I disagree with Crispin about "<span style="font-family:calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14.6667px">inflated claims for health impact from cooking fire smoke" </span>bit. It's all a matter of definitions, data, methods. A matter of opinion. <br><br>It is presumptuous to "learn to see the truth". All I can do is verify particular opinions via examination of definitions, data, methods. It is my opinion that WHO assertions on IAQ and attribution of BOD are unverifiable. <br><br>I choose to call it - and the hyperboles from GACC - hocus pocus. But others should examine. <br><br><br>Nikhil<br><br><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"> </div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="gmail-m_5329751198283742187m_-4835886248214277823gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-size:12.8px"><font face="georgia, serif"><i> </i></font></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 6:25 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:cec1863@gmail.com" target="_blank">cec1863@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="en-US" style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);line-height:initial"> <div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:calibri,"slate pro",sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Dear CPP,</div><div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:calibri,"slate pro",sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br></div><div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:calibri,"slate pro",sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">As an anthropologist with too many years of experience in the field talking to folks about their stoves and other types of technos I have learned that the challenge and the art and even the revelation depends on knowing which questions to ask, how to ask them (in what language to ask these questions), how to record and aggregate the answers, and how to communicate your findings to decision makers who are trapped in a welter of competing agendas and paradigms.</div><div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:calibri,"slate pro",sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br></div><div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:calibri,"slate pro",sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">My anthropological conversations and feed back from stove users, makers, sellers, fuel suppliers,etc to policy makers and funders is like water off a ducks back. Maybe I am studying the wrong subjects......maybe I should study the policy makers and funders and standard setters in Euro American high places. I need to study up from the stove users point of view at the BOP.</div><div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:calibri,"slate pro",sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br></div><div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:calibri,"slate pro",sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Cecil </div> <div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:calibri,"slate pro",sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><br style="display:initial"></div> <div style="font-size:initial;font-family:calibri,"slate pro",sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Sent from my BlackBerry 10 sma<wbr>rtphone.</div> <table width="100%" style="background-color:white"> <tbody><tr><td colspan="2" style="font-size:initial;text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> <div style="border-style:solid none none;border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223);border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt 0in 0in;font-family:tahoma,"bb alpha sans","slate pro";font-size:10pt"> <div><b>From: </b>Crispin Pemberton-Pigott</div><div><b>Sent: </b>Saturday, December 10, 2016 3:38 AM</div><span><div><b>To: </b>Discussion of biomass cooking stoves</div></span><div><b>Reply To: </b>Discussion of biomass cooking stoves</div><div><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Stoves] Offtopic: Malawi and responsibility (Andrew, Roger)</div></div></td></tr></tbody></table><div style="border-style:solid none none;border-top-color:rgb(186,188,209);border-top-width:1pt;font-size:initial;text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"></div><br><div id="gmail-m_5329751198283742187m_-4835886248214277823m_8313783266804020722_originalContent">
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<p class="MsoNormal">Dear Nikhil<u></u><u></u></p><span>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">"We did not assess lifetime nutritional conditions of the subject populations or their influence on incidence of pneumonia, receptivity to foreign researchers and monitors, ignorance of what we are doing to or with them and why." <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Well, we should learn to seek the truth then:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img width="378" height="164" style="width: 3.9375in; height: 1.7083in;" id="gmail-m_5329751198283742187m_-4835886248214277823m_8313783266804020722Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image003.jpg@01D25235.75E98BF0"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif">That is from Scott Adams, the creator of Dilbert.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif">He is right of course – Dilbert is smart.
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif">The pattern I recognise is inflated claims for health impact from cooking fire smoke translated into funding to avert “the health crisis”.
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif">If one wants to improve the lot of the poor, in the kitchen, ask them what bothers them about their stoves and cooking experiences. They will freely tell you.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif">Then address those concerns. Add your own no-smoke flavour. Presto.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif">Regards<br>
Crispin<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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