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Stovers, (Subject thread changed because the topic has shifted
completely)<br>
<br>
We are stovers. We are on the Stoves listserv that has a STRONG
focus on biomass fuels. And we will stay that way.<br>
<br>
But we are not to be ignorant about other fuels. We know that
there are massive efforts (and investments) for LPG stoves,
especially in India, but talked about in many places. About LPG, I
only complain that LPG is sucking up so much of the funding and
advocacy support. Just give equal resources to the CLEAN
biomass-burning stoves. Not likely to happen, so LPG fossil fuel
gets burned, increasing the CO2 in the atmosphere. And LPG will
NEVER reach the hundreds of millions of households that need better
stoves. Cherry pick the more affluent of the poor. But LPG is not
a realistic answer when it comes to serving the masses of people in
poverty.<br>
<br>
But we tollerate LPG. If interested, sign up for the LPG stove
webinar that is this Thursday at 9 AM Central Standard Time.<br>
<br>
But hey, what about coal? It certainly gets bad-mouthed on the
Stoves listserv. Dirty coal. Blah Blah Blah.<br>
<br>
Well, if we can "tollerate" LPG as a fossil fuel that gives clean
cookstoves to needy people, we should also "tollerate or even
accept" that CLEAN-BURNING of COAL is just as good (or equally bad
but allowed) as LPG. <br>
<br>
IF or WHEN or NOW THAT the Model 4 coal gasifiers are
measureably shown to be quite clean burning, it is time for the
Stovers to acknowledge them and to actually embrace the coal
gasifiers WHERE APPROPRIATE. Coal and modern coal-burning gasifier
stoves are not a strong candidate solution for cookstoves in the
humid tropics where biomass is sufficiently present. And coal is
certainly not present everywhere.<br>
<br>
But where coal is available and where biomass is scarce (such as
Malawi) or where it is cold and stoves run almost continually for 5
to 8 months, these new improved coal burners COULD have a major
role. They should have a chance to be proven. Time for some
resources to be put into usage of that technology.<br>
<br>
The Stoves Listserv has had major discussions about alcohol stoves
and now LPG and even some (not much) about solar and retained heat
cookers. We are not about ONLY biomass stoves. We are about
stoves for impoverished people, for whom biomass is by far the most
important fuel. But we are NOT against coal when burned correctly
and in appropriate situations. (If we were against coal and fossil
fuels, we would abandon most of the USA for 3 to 5 months every
winter because our homes would be frozen shut.) <br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/13/2016 1:52 PM, Crispin
Pemberton-Pigott wrote:<br>
</div>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Dear
Jock<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Would
you agree that the ‘same-old-same-old’ means the same stoves
that we have been punting for years, which are either
rejected as not cooking properly, or too expensive?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Perhaps
we should concentrate on finding disruptive technologies
that leap past old hurdles.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Two
come time mind that are presently being rolled out on a
small scale: the TLUD’s making charcoal for money that
Sujatha is making, and the Model 4 coal gasifiers. Both are
making a lie out of many assumptions that have driven many
of the decisions (and ‘truths’) taken in the past 5-10
years.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The
first idea that has been overthrown is that ‘there are dirty
fuels’. It was never true as the observations was based on
the combustion technologies available at the time. Changing
the technology has transformed the consequence.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I
was at a ProBEC conference once at which it was plainly
stated that ‘wood is a smoky fuel’. I pointed out that we
had far better combustors these days and that it was no
longer true all the time. The reply was, “Well that is all
interesting but wood is such a smoky fuel!”<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Now
we face the same situation with coal. The devices for
kerosene were always clean burning – some of them – since 80
years ago. Imagine, it has taken that long to get the
message through. We can’t afford to wait that long again. We
need a communication paradigm that has shifted.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Crispin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">If
the ideas that permeate this sector haven’t
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">The problem
I see is that we are too focused on stove technology. We are
not looking at the context in which the problems exist. My
view is that little progress will be made until we reject
and replace most, if not all, of the 20th century "zombie"
ideologies. These zombies create a framework that
essentially prevents the necessary political, economic, and
social changes that would allow better stoves to play a
constructive role in solving the problems created by these
very same zombies. The voters in the US clearly rejected
more of the same old same old. However, the only real choice
they had was a backwards view offering a return to a
simulacrum of an imagined 18th century. I have yet to see a
vibrant and dynamic vision of a regenerative 21st century.
Clearly, the Democratic Party failed to offer such a vision
as an alternative to the offering made by team Trump. And
now we will all pay the price for this failure to create and
offer a forward looking vision. Better stoves will come
into their own only when such a vision is articulated and
adopted very widely.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Jock Gill<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="x-apple-data-detectors://0"><span
style="color:black">P. O. Box 3</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="x-apple-data-detectors://0"><span
style="color:black">Peacham, VT 05862</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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</pre>
</blockquote>
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