<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><div class="">Crispin (again adding back in the stoves list; I hope it is clear that dialogs like this need to go to the full list)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>1. Sorry for the confusion over “bible”. I have given only one cite (and attachment) today. Here again is what I was jokingly referring to as the “Bible” (since I believe it is accepted by we “stove believers”): <a href="http://cleancookstoves.org/technology-and-fuels/testing/protocols.html" class="">http://cleancookstoves.org/technology-and-fuels/testing/protocols.html</a>) (attached earlier)</div><div class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>2. For third time, I repeat my request for two (2) cites from the above document: </div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>At 11:05 AM (Denver) yesterday, I said: <i class="">I find the weight of the fuel being prominent - so don’t understand your statement below on this topic. How about picking two pages/equations here that you think has been done incorrectly? (No more than 2, please, at first.)</i></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>At 1:15 PM yesterday I said: <i class=""> 1. Let me try again. I said: "<span class="">How about picking two pages/equations here that you think has been done incorrectly? (No more than 2, please, at first.)” (from the site and the attachment).</span></i></div><div class=""><i class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>I presume many on this list were waiting to see what you disliked the most in this sort-of official “bible”. </i></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>3. You also apparently didn’t noticed that I had asked (see the 1:15 PM message) for the cite to the Kirk Smith article (and I now read also was a comment tothis list). I again ask for those. Being told it was “earlier this year” is not advancing the dialog. In case this is not clear, you used the term: “<span class="" style="text-align: initial; font-style: italic; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; font-size: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">dreadful 2016 paper from BUCT and Kirk Smith</span><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri, Slate Pro, sans-serif, sans-serif" size="3" class=""><i class="">”.</i></font></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Ron</div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 25, 2016, at 2:04 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" class="">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
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Dear Ron</div>
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I have no idea what you mean by the 'bible'. </div>
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The paper was discussed earlier this year on this list including at least one response from Kirk. It makes the fundamental error of assuming that comparing the heat transfer efficiency of two stoves is the same as comparing their fuel consumption. </div>
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I don't think anyone on this list is in any doubt about the complaint regarding calling a heat transfer efficiency or a proxy of it anything to do with the fuel consumption or energy efficiency (a mass of fuel being a proxy for an embedded energy content).</div>
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<div class="">><span style="line-height: initial;" class="">"</span><i style="line-height: initial;" class="">How about picking two pages/equations here that you think has been done incorrectly? </i></div>
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<div class=""><span style="line-height: initial;" class="">The WBT reports a dry fuel mass equivalent of the energy theoretically released from burned fuel, disregarding energy contained in unrecovered char and unburned gases. It is titled 'fuel consumption' which obviously
it is not. </span><span style="line-height: initial;" class=""></span></div>
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<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>>2. We agree on one thing. I have been arguing against the subtraction in the denominator (described below) for at least a decade. Not for your reason though. That approach under-
(not over-) estimates the efficiency I want reported. </div>
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<div class="">Then your calculation is in error. </div>
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<div class="">If it is added to the numerator the result, 55% in my example, is lower than subtracting it from the denominator, 58.3%. </div>
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<div class="">><span style="line-height: initial;" class="">(Not in your analysis below, because you threw away part of the char that I was trying to obtain - char of the size you want to forget about is “exactly” ready for the garden.)</span></div>
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<div class=""><span style="line-height: initial;" class="">I didn't 'throw away' anything. I explained how to correctly report the cooking efficiency, the heating efficiency, and the efficiency of retaining fuel energy in the char. It is not complicated nor is it unusual. </span></div>
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<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>>3. Maybe we will agree if you show us your calculation of the various Inefficiencies (emphasis only on the “in” part) in your example. Where exactly do you see “wasted” or “non-useful” energy?</div>
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<div class="">I did not say anything about 'waste'. I showed how to correct the calculation of efficiencies that are at present calculated incorrectly in the WBT spreadsheet. <span style="line-height: initial;" class=""></span></div>
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<div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>>5. To repeat, for emphasis, I am looking for specifics in the 2014 version of the “bible”. Especially the part about not reporting weights.</div>
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<div class="">What 'bible'?</div>
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<div class="">Reporting the energy efficiency does not require knowing 'weights' except the mass of fuel fed in during each replication of the test. </div>
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<div class="">Regards </div>
<div class="">Crispin </div>
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