<div dir="ltr">Crispin: <br><br>After the mirage, desert wanderers can put on blinders. <br><div><br>I am shocked at - "<span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:calibri,"slate pro",sans-serif,sans-serif;font-size:medium">The claim that solid fuels 'cannot be burned cleanly enough to meet WHO indoor air quality standards unless the stove has a fan". </span>Who pray tell has made this claim and how relevant is it? (I can imagine an economist making such a claim. Did I ever say that?) <br><br>Besides, how in the world WHO IAQ Guidelines get converted to "standards"? </div><div><br></div><div>Is TC 285 in the business of declaring some stoves with some fuels meet WHO IAQ Guidelines? That would be patent fraud. You claim the claim "<span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:calibri,"slate pro",sans-serif,sans-serif;font-size:medium">is patently false, falsified by numerous devices on the market. We can't even say that placing a crib of wood on top of a n existing fire cannot burn cleanly, without the MHA pointing out they are doing exactly that. </span></div><div><br></div><div>Who/what is MHA? <br><br>All I know is Kirk Smith's claim that as yet, no biomass stove has proved to be "truly health protective". I disagree with that claim and if that claim is rooted in some TC 285 procedures -- Water Boiling Test, or whatever else it does, with whatever fuel quality and whatever EPA/BAMG "box models" - it is immoral. <br><br>To me, there is no basis for IAQ Guidelines. WHO doesn't hare the jurisdiction, nor the competence. If any such jugglery was going on for the US, TC 285 could be drawn to courts. <br><br>And if any ISO standards based on TC 285 are applicable - leave alone applied - to the US, that would be grounds enough to draw ISO in a US court. (I assume US is a member of the ISO but it cannot claim immunity because I doubt there is any legislative provision for EPA and private organization such as GACC to pursue such outlandish avenues of pseudo-science.) <br><br>********</div><br>Fuel-fetishists' fancy about clean fuel - "<span style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:calibri,"slate pro",sans-serif,sans-serif;font-size:medium">One is that it will automatically burn 'cleanly' regardless of the device it is in." </span>- will never be satisfied. <br><br>It is not that LPG combustion can have high emission rates. Rather, the fact remains that examples of automatic and continuous combustion over long periods of LPG burning in "unclean" manner are probably confined to industrial fires. <br><br>For all practical purposes, LPG is a "clean fuel". So is methane. (I am sure biomass can be converted to propane or butane.) <br><br>It is when general biomasses are concerned - tree products of different variety, shrubbery, grasses, dung, roots, paper, leaves, crop wastes - that examples of "unclean combustion" abound, sometimes automatic and continuous. <br><br>For all practical purposes, solid fuel uses (biomasses mentioned plus coals) in cooking and heating stoves in most developing country situations I have observed is "unclean". <br><br>So, in terms of current actual usage, liquids are "clean fuels" because their burners are designed to deliver relatively far cleaner combustion over long periods, and solid fuels are "unclean" EXCEPT when used with BETTER BURNERS. <br><br>It is only in the totality of use -- not just emission loads per meal cooked, as tested in labs -- that a fuel is "clean" or "unclean". <div><br></div><div>Nikhil</div><div><br><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"> </div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><font face="georgia, serif"><i> </i></font></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 1:21 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" target="_blank">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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Guys, there is a certain mirage that must be given up. </div>
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A clean fuel has two meanings. One is that it will automatically burn 'cleanly' regardless of the device it is in. This concept is disproven by looking at LPG which will burn with a sooty orange flame if it is not mixed well with air. This was demonstrated
by Philip Hopke at the GACC roadmap conference in Bangkok. </div>
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The other is that it doesn't have 'carbon' in the emissions, for example hydrogen. </div>
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That's it. To keep everyone happy there isn't much to choose from. </div>
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Now about the 'TLUD' thing. There are thousands of very clean burning masonry heaters, for example, that have extremely low emissions of PM and CO. They are not TLUD's and they are bottom-lit. They burn ordinary wood like split oak and Douglas Fir. No pelleting
and preparation. </div>
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There are also some very clean burning Rocket Mass Heaters (nothing to do with Rocket Stoves) that burn ordinary wood. </div>
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Obviously there are clean burning coal stoves and some of them are TLUD's, some not. </div>
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The point I am making is that there is no requirement to process the fuel in order to burn it cleanly. If a generalisation is made it could be that to make a very small fire, the fuel should be appropriately sized if the combustion is to be really clean. The
appropriate size is however not immediately clear. Is it two sticks spaced one c apart or an eight mm pellet in an rightly mm space?</div>
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The claim that solid fuels 'cannot be burned cleanly enough to meet WHO indoor air quality standards unless the stove has a fan' is patently false, falsified by numerous devices on the market. We can't even say that placing a crib of wood on top of a n existing
fire cannot burn cleanly, without the MHA pointing out they are doing exactly that. </div>
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If the bottom line is supposed to be 'only LPG and electricity can cook cleanly' we might as well rename the GACC the LP Gas promotion association. Big Gas could be asked to provide $30m to conduct field studies proving various assertions about air quality
and health. Bespoke science. </div>
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An argument can be made that on a galactic time scale, LPG is CO2 neutral. The CO2 is absorbed into shells and eventually folded into subduction zones and buried in the Earth's mantle. Over time and pressure it is converted (with water) to natural gas which
eventually rises to a future civilisation's gas well and fracking channel. Presto, it's renewable. </div>
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LPG: clean burning (maybe) renewable energy (eventually). </div>
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Patience not supplied. </div>
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Regards </div><span class="gmail-HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
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Crispin </div></font></span><div><div class="gmail-h5">
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<div id="gmail-m_5307049865740053465_originalContent" style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Frank,<br>
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Thank you for the kind words. Yes, wood can be a clean fuel, meaning that it can be quite cleanly burned (specifically referring to TLUD stoves).
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Fuel preparation for TLUD stoves is becoming much less of an issue, and is different in different areas. Much depends on proper introduction of the TLUD stoves AND having sufficient numbers of users who are close to each other (attaining "critical mass" that
stimulates local support efforts). <br>
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Also to be included along with the Champion TLUD are the Mimi-Moto TLUD and the soon-to-be piloted FAABulous TLUD, both with forced air and using pellet fuel. PELLET FUEL is an answer to having proper fuel and great results. And the economic viability of
pellet fuel has been established for at least some meaningfully sized markets, and more markets are coming.<br>
<br>
And funding via carbon credits (as shown in the Deganga TLUD study) has potential for major impact, and eventually (I hope) to be supportive of the lab and
<u>appropriate </u>testing that you mention.<br>
<br>
Note: These and other topics will be included in my SPECIAL SESSION at ETHOS this year. (Saturday evening, full block of time.) More details will be available soon. One of the major topics is about TLUD stove potential for Haiti!!! And also making electricity
using the charcoal from TLUD stoves.<br>
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Frank, I hope you can make it to ETHOS this year.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<pre class="gmail-m_5307049865740053465moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="gmail-m_5307049865740053465moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: <a href="tel:(309)%20452-7072" value="+13094527072" target="_blank">+1-309-452-7072</a>
Website: <a class="gmail-m_5307049865740053465moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div class="gmail-m_5307049865740053465moz-cite-prefix">On 1/7/2017 10:31 AM, Frank Shields wrote:<br>
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<div>On Jan 7, 2017, at 7:34 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" target="_blank">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif">Dear Stovers</span></div>
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<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif">What on earth is a “clean fuel”?</span></div>
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<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif">Thanks<br>
Crispin</span></div>
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<div>Its biomass uniformly prepared, sized and with proper combustion characteristics known suitable for a specific stove. </div>
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<div>We cannot complain about what other groups are doing with all the money allocated to them for improving biomass stoves and cleaner air until we give them a direction to go in. Not having a direction and complaining just goes in circles - as we have been
doing for YEARS! The only direction (for now) is “What Preparation is Required for a Biomass to work in Paul’s Champion TLUD Stove? And How Best is That Done?”</div>
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<div>There is a big pile of biomass from a local community - what do we need to know about it and how best to size it for the Champion? </div>
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<div>We need (1) an equipped PRIVATE lab (no Universities) (2) creative personal (3) the stove (4) the biomass (5) money - and funders need to know this is research and not all research ends in grand success (as required by Universities). Ten steps backwards
and one forward. The one’s forward add up over time. </div>
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<div>Frank</div>
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<b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:calibri,sans-serif"><span class="gmail-m_5307049865740053465Apple-converted-space"> </span>Stoves [<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.<wbr>bioenergylists.org</a>]<span class="gmail-m_5307049865740053465Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="gmail-m_5307049865740053465Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Traveller<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="gmail-m_5307049865740053465Apple-converted-space"> </span>7-Jan-17 09:24<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="gmail-m_5307049865740053465Apple-converted-space"> </span>Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.<wbr>org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="gmail-m_5307049865740053465Apple-converted-space"> </span>[Stoves] News: GACC and CCAP launch "Urban Health and Short-Lived-Climate-Pollutants Reduction Project.”</span></div>
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<span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:trocchi;color:rgb(97,97,97);font-weight:normal"><a href="http://cleancookstoves.org/about/news/12-20-2016-alliance-promotes-climate-and-health-co-benefits-of-cookstoves.html" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">Alliance
promotes climate and health co-benefits of cookstoves</a>, 20 December 2016.</span></h1>
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<div>"To influence policy decisions of relevant ministries in Ghana, the Alliance is working with leading experts and partners, including Berkeley Air Monitoring Group, UrbanEmissions, and Dr. Ajay Pillarisetti to measure the burden of disease
from household air pollution in Accra, the contribution of household energy consumption to ambient air pollution, and the potential reductions in exposure and resulting burden of disease due to a range of household energy interventions."</div>
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I suppose you all know the story of<span class="gmail-m_5307049865740053465Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.worldstory.net/en/stories/chicken_little.html" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">Chicken Little</a>. For that chicken,
"The sky is falling, the sky is falling!"<br>
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For our Global Alliance of Confident Chickens - it is "Look, look! I am carrying the sky over my head."<br>
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In its<span class="gmail-m_5307049865740053465Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://cleancookstoves.org/resources/reports/2016progress.html" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">2016 Progress Report</a>, it boasts"Based on results reported
by partners this year and careful analyses of the trends in available data, an estimated 20.6 million stoves and fuels were distributed in 2015, of which 13 million (63%) were clean and/or efficient." (See chart below). <br>
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What did GACC have to do with it, and how did it cook up these numbers - total, "clean", "efficient"? I even wonder what "distributed" means and why the "Global Total Stove and Fuel Distribution" was supposedly close to zero in 2010 and is projected to rise
to 300 million by 2020 [What kind of brainlessness does it take to imply "300 million fuel"?] </div>
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<div>For Ghana, it says "Ghana has seen steady advancement in transforming the cookstoves and fuels sector in 2016. As part of the government’s efforts to reduce deforestation and provide a cleaner cooking fuel, Ghana’s Petroleum Minister
Hon. Emmanuel Buah launched a program to provide households with cooking gas connections. The program has distributed 70,000 LPG cylinders to families across six regions."<br>
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WHOA!! Ghana started LPG production in 1981 and had<span class="gmail-m_5307049865740053465Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://www.esmap.org/sites/esmap.org/files/Rpt_Ghanalpgquayefoli.pdf" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">600,000 LPG
cylinders in 1997</a><span class="gmail-m_5307049865740053465Apple-converted-space"> </span>already. What if anything did GACC have to do with these 70,000 cylinders? (Give GACC CEO - potentate - credit for giving no credit in the Progress Report to any other GACC staff. Did she hire
them?) <br>
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Now Ghana is going to have<span class="gmail-m_5307049865740053465Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-10-25/ge-venture-to-build-world-s-largest-lpg-power-plant-in-ghana" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">the
world's largest LPG-fired power plant</a>. Credit to GACC? <br>
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Is GACC a marketer for BAMG and vice versa? These two private organizations are gallivanting around the world to drum up more money for themselves. All in the name of the poor and without a mandate or competence. <br>
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<div>Any pretense that some HAPIT modeling will show enough "health co-benefits" to "influence policy decisions of relevant ministries in Ghana" betrays utter ignorance of last 100 years' history of shifting cooking to gas and electricity,
in and outside the homes. </div>
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<div>Nobody has to date published any quantified claims of health benefits of modern energy transitions in the rich countries over that period. </div>
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But somehow it is only the poor who need expert lecturing - and well-baked models - to be convinced, of "potential" reductions in the burden of disease. <br>
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What is the baseline for the burden of disease? Under what assumptions? How long will this charade go on? </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt">And why is GACC babbling "a range of household energy interventions" in Accra when, from whatever I can tell, all it can take credit for in Ghana is on gas. </span></p>
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<div><span style="font-size:9.5pt">Why don't we call it Global Alliance for Gas [GAG]?</span></div>
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Because it is a one-person radio of the Global Alliance for Boast [GAB]? </span></div>
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For all her appearances, is GACC a one-woman show? <br>
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Well, Hillary is another one. Though now<span class="gmail-m_5307049865740053465Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/06/opinion/sunday/rumors-of-hillary-clintons-comeback.html" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">she
is said to be mulling NYC mayorship</a>. <br>
<br>
There is plenty of PM2.5 in NYC.<span class="gmail-m_5307049865740053465Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/doh/downloads/pdf/environmental/comm-air-survey-08-14.pdf" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">SO2 levels have
declined</a> recently but PM2.5 levels still remain high near boilers. The queens of Chappaqua and Washington can partner with Trump Organization to replace all the boilers with electricity - solar and wind - or build new real estate. Win, Win, Win!! Goldman
Sachs is drooling. <br>
<br>
Nikhil</span></div>
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<div><span style="font-size:9.5pt"><br>
PS: I like the idea of SLCP reduction; wrote a concept note back in 2005.Ghana became one of the pioneering members of something called clean air and climate coalition (or some other mixture of these words), started by or under the leadership of Hillary circa
2011. Jerry Brown has signed in an SLCP law. GACC and BAMG are probably looking to monetize health and climate benefits from every gas stove for individual customers and take a middleman's cut. Poverty mixed with ignorance and absence of laws is a gold mine. </span></div>
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<div><span style="font-size:9.5pt"><span id="gmail-m_5307049865740053465cid:image001.png@01D268D1.A12955E0"><image001.png></span></span></div>
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<div><span style="font-size:9.5pt">Source: GACC</span></div>
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