<html>
  <head>
    <meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
  </head>
  <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    Nikhil and all,<br>
    <br>
    I am starting with US$10 per claimed carbon credit.   <br>
    <br>
    This is outside of the activities of any established governing
    bodies of carbon credits.  I will be very clear about what is being
    sold and where the money is going.   And then I must depend on
    acceptance by those who would support the activities.  <br>
    <br>
    People will be supportive because of clean stoves, carbon reduction,
    less deforestation, biochar, or whatever reason or reasons they find
    important.  The work has started already with the stoves.  This is
    not like Kickstarter or crowd funding.   <br>
    <br>
    Your questions and ideas are not stupid or silly, they are just
    things that I cannot answer at present.  I am hoping that some
    (several, or many??) people will step forward and assist.<br>
    <br>
    Stay tuned,<br>
    <br>
    Paul<br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email:  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype:   paultlud    Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/12/2017 2:08 PM, Traveller wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAK27e=n4LVyDgNuek3fjzdKacdA5-uXND1FgPV=prd5sr8nFzQ@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div class="gmail_extra">
          <div>
            <div class="m_-2490680256044089650gmail_signature">
              <div dir="ltr">
                <div dir="ltr">
                  <div dir="ltr">
                    <div>Paul: <br>
                      <br>
                      Sorry for a delayed response. <br>
                      <br>
                      My 20+ years old charge that the CDM process - in
                      turn based on IPCC Guidelines for GHG inventorying
                      - is based on "expert-selected species for
                      expert-selected computational methods from
                      expert-selected sources net of expert-selected
                      sinks" - is re-confirmed by your post. <br>
                      <br>
                      I wish you all success in getting biochar
                      recognized in some "avoided kgCO2e" fashion. <br>
                      <br>
                      I haven't looked at CDM rules in ten years, but
                      there may be some "sequestration" computations
                      available from the REDD projects. I don't know if
                      there are any yet under CDM. (This may answer
                      Frank's question -- two different mechanisms may
                      apply at the FCCC.) <br>
                      <br>
                      You will also do a great service by doing what is
                      called "price discovery". <br>
                      <br>
                      Here is perhaps a stupid question --- if you put 1
                      tCO2e in the ground per year as char, is that net
                      of all CO2e emitted from the stove? Or do your
                      stoves have to show a low fNRB in order to get any
                      avoided CO2e from combustion? What is the baseline
                      for both cooking emissions (today) and char
                      emissions (100 years, say)? What do you have to
                      prove for "permanent sequestration"? (Not that
                      anybody else has to prove permanent effect, only
                      that during project lifetime.) <br>
                      <br>
                      I have no knowledge of the fate of char in soil. <br>
                      <br>
                      A silly idea perhaps -- you can design bids for
                      your CDM and char/REDD certificates (assuming REDD
                      applies), and offer the first buyers discounted
                      price on future certificates. I did some auction
                      modeling for Montreal Protocol some twenty years
                      ago, but a better economist and scientist is
                      needed for REDD auctions!! (There has been some
                      literature on CER auction models, but my knowledge
                      is way too rusty.) <br>
                      <br>
                      Start with a reservation price for CDM at $7/tCO2e
                      and char at $10/tCO2e. Is that enough revenue per
                      stove to cover the fob plant production cost? <br>
                      <br>
                      Nikhil<br>
                      <br>
                      <br>
                      <br>
                      <br>
                    </div>
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    <div style="font-size:12.8px"><font face="georgia,
                        serif"><i> </i></font></div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
          <div class="gmail_quote">
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
              0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
              rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
              <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> Frank, Stovers, and Charists.<br>
                <br>
                I am responding to Frank's question that is below.<br>
                <br>
                No carbon credits are given for biochar because that is
                the way the current carbon credit system is structured
                for that Deganga project (link is given below).  That is
                beyond the control of that project.<br>
                <br>
                HOWEVER, I am organizing a similar Champion TLUD stove
                project in East Darjeeling District, West Bengal, India
                (exactly on the border with Bhutan).  That project has
                new rules about its carbon credits.  And I am stating
                that the incorporation of biochar into soils is eligible
                for carbon credits.  I will be presenting this at the
                ETHOS session Saturday evening 28 January. in the
                Seattle area.<br>
                <br>
                Note:  Carbon credits are essentially an intangible
                commodity that can be linked to specific acts, such as
                the irreversible, scattered burial of appropriate carbon
                into soil.  Will someone pay to have that char-burial
                (making it unburnable) occur?   THAT is the same as
                paying for voluntary carbon credits.   <br>
                <br>
                When (not if) that "unburnableness" of char is possible
                in a reasonably documented manner, would someone pay for
                that to happen?  I think that some people will A) pay
                for the carbon-negative burial of the equivlaent of 1
                tCO2; or B) pay to have biochar into soil; or C) pay to
                accomplish both A and B; or D) pay as a donation to a
                real biochar project in an impoverished country; or E)
                pay for any other reason (such as "they like Paul
                Anderson.")  <br>
                <br>
                It takes about 250 kg (quarter ton) of dry un-treated
                (raw) biochar to make 1 tonne CO2eq., and that amount of
                char comes from 1 TLUD stove used daily in one household
                during one year (based on India field data, not just
                laboratory calculations).  I think that such an amount
                that is PERMANENTLY SEQUESTERED should be worth TWO
                carbon credits, but that will need to be debated and
                resolved.  <br>
                <br>
                I intend to place that amount of char on the market for
                US$20, being the price for EITHER one Biochar Credit or
                two Carbon Credits.  I think that is a fair price.  
                What do you think?  Can the price be higher?   <br>
                <br>
                The East Darjeeling project will also be selling single
                Carbon Credits for $10.<br>
                <br>
                Will anyone purchase it (as 2 carbon credits and they do
                not care about the char as long as it is made
                unburnable) (or as one biochar credit) and donate it to
                a serious biochar project in the local area?  <br>
                <br>
                THAT is a serious question.   And I ask it to everyone
                who is reading this email.  $20 for biochar.  And there
                will be tens of thousands of those "Biochar Credits"
                every year.  <br>
                <br>
                Remember, this is BOTH a Biochar Listserv topic
                (obviously) AND a Stoves Listserv topic (as it relates
                to how to finance the stoves that we want to
                disseminate.)   To be discussed on the lists separately.<br>
                <br>
                I will be discussing this further, providing information
                as fast as I can.  I will see your responses, but I have
                work to do and will let others lead the discussions /
                debates.     (Please be sure that all discussants have
                read the Deganga TLUD report.   Otherwise, the above
                statements and their comments will not make sense.)  <br>
                <br>
                Paul<br>
                <pre class="m_-2490680256044089650gmail-m_8068336807806710315moz-signature" cols="72">Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email:  <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="m_-2490680256044089650gmail-m_8068336807806710315moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype:   paultlud    Phone: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%28309%29%20452-7072" value="+13094527072" target="_blank">+1-309-452-7072</a>
Website:  <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="m_-2490680256044089650gmail-m_8068336807806710315moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
                <div
                  class="m_-2490680256044089650gmail-m_8068336807806710315moz-cite-prefix">On
                  1/8/2017 11:08 PM, Frank Shields wrote:<br>
                </div>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <div><span style="font-family:calibri;font-size:11pt">Thanks
                      Paul,</span></div>
                  <div><span style="font-family:calibri;font-size:11pt">I
                      searched for the Deganga study and found it to be
                      interesting. One statement in the report i do not
                      understand:</span></div>
                  <span style="font-family:calibri;font-size:11pt">
                    <div><br>
                    </div>
                    "3. The produced TLUD char cannot generate credits
                    if it is burned by the household or used as biochar
                    for soil amending.</span><font face="Calibri"><span
                      style="font-size:15px">”</span></font>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>“cannot generate credits if it is burned by the
                    household” - thats makes sense.</div>
                  <div>“or used as biochar for soil amending”? - that
                    makes NO sense.</div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>Amazing number of hurtles that you must have
                    overcome to set the program in motion.</div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.drtlud.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/TLUD-Case-Study-Deganga-2016-09-30.pdf"
                      target="_blank">http://www.drtlud.com/wp-conte<wbr>nt/uploads/2016/09/TLUD-Case-<wbr>Study-Deganga-2016-09-30.pdf</a></div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>Thanks</div>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div>Frank</div>
                      <div>Frank Shields</div>
                      <div>Gabilan Laboratory</div>
                      <div>Keith Day Company, Inc.</div>
                      <div>1091 Madison Lane</div>
                      <div>Salinas, CA  93907</div>
                      <div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="tel:%28831%29%20246-0417"
                          value="+18312460417" target="_blank">(831)
                          246-0417</a> cell</div>
                      <div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="tel:%28831%29%20771-0126"
                          value="+18317710126" target="_blank">(831)
                          771-0126</a> office</div>
                      <div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:fShields@keithdaycompany.com"
                          target="_blank">fShields@keithdaycompany.com</a></div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:franke@cruzio.com"
                          target="_blank">franke@cruzio.com</a></div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <br
class="m_-2490680256044089650gmail-m_8068336807806710315Apple-interchange-newline">
                    </div>
                    <br>
                    <div>
                      <blockquote type="cite">
                        <div>On Jan 8, 2017, at 8:43 PM, Paul Anderson
                          <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu"
                            target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>>
                          wrote:</div>
                        <br
class="m_-2490680256044089650gmail-m_8068336807806710315Apple-interchange-newline">
                        <div><span
style="font-family:helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;display:inline"><span
class="m_-2490680256044089650gmail-m_8068336807806710315Apple-converted-space"> </span>Deganga
                            study<span
class="m_-2490680256044089650gmail-m_8068336807806710315Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
                      </blockquote>
                    </div>
                    <br>
                  </div>
                  <br>
                  <fieldset
class="m_-2490680256044089650gmail-m_8068336807806710315mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
                  <br>
                  <pre>______________________________<wbr>_________________
Stoves mailing list

to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="m_-2490680256044089650gmail-m_8068336807806710315moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.or<wbr>g</a>

to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="m_-2490680256044089650gmail-m_8068336807806710315moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.or<wbr>g/mailman/listinfo/stoves_list<wbr>s.bioenergylists.org</a>

for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="m_-2490680256044089650gmail-m_8068336807806710315moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.o<wbr>rg/</a>

</pre>
    </blockquote>
    

  </div>

</blockquote></div>
</div></div>



</blockquote>
</body></html>