<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hi again (this #4 today) again trying to not repeat anything in my earlier today responses 1-3<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">See below.<br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jan 24, 2017, at 8:44 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" class="">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: initial; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); width: 876px; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Dear Camilla</div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: initial; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); width: 876px; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: initial; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); width: 876px; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">How about this:</div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: initial; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); width: 876px; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: initial; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); width: 876px; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">As a major player, one of the most important on the producer's side, in the world of improved stoves, how about you post in as complete detail as possible, the test results you have received from the five testing centres. </div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: initial; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); width: 876px; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: initial; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); width: 876px; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">If it was a WBT then there should be a spreadsheet for tests or sets of tests. Several of us will look them over to provide assessments. Do this before the ETHOS meeting. </div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL: Me too. I promise complete confidentiality, however, if wished.</b><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: initial; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); width: 876px; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: initial; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); width: 876px; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">The great value of having the original measurements is that I and others can recalculate valid metrics (at least) and in some cases valid results, or more valid results, and to be able to compare with the results of other methods. </div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: initial; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); width: 876px; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: initial; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); width: 876px; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">I am willing to put them in the testing folder of my website<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.newdawnengineering.com/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">www.newdawnengineering.com</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>so they are accessible. They could also be posted on this discussion list under a category of 'test results'.</div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: initial; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); width: 876px; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: initial; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); width: 876px; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">I have in mind posting the processing sheets so instead of getting a WBT output which we are pretty sure tells us little,</div></div></blockquote><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL: I wonder if only some of the test scores were high (being a TLUD with retained char) and handled correctly? The details on how these 5 responses on char production might explain a lot.</b></div><div><br class=""></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: initial; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); width: 876px; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> we could calculate without perhaps half of the errors and use whatever result we can. We can create our own Stoves list conparison chart with valid metrics, at a minimum, and offer some boilerplate advice on how to interpret results. </div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: initial; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); width: 876px; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: initial; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); width: 876px; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Planners, policy managers, stove manufacturers, designers and trainers will then be able to get access to materials they need and guide the sector to more success than we are having now. It also completely bypasses gate-keeping wherever it arises. </div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: initial; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); width: 876px; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: initial; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); width: 876px; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Cecil, you are the organisations man. How to we structure this level of citizen science? Make sure you are in a position to include the social science aspects, so central to product acceptance. </div></div></blockquote><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL: See more on my later response to Cecil, who has apparently never asked any question that groups like Prime would want asked about char-making stoves (time saved, money earned, reasons for high test scores, etc)</b><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: initial; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); width: 876px; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: initial; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); width: 876px; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Camilla, you'd be far better off paying Cecil $1000 to do that than getting another test performed. You would at least have something credible. </div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: initial; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); width: 876px; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: initial; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); width: 876px; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Tami, I don't think we are going to wait for anything to be reviewed or decided. The WBT should be abandoned forthwith and we should settle on something else. </div></div></blockquote><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL: To others: Tami (also being cc’d) is Prof. Tami Bond (U. Illinois). She is chair of a group #1 working under ISO and GACC auspices studying this. I have known Tami for perhaps 15 years and have high regard for her knowledge in this topic. We should note that she was the first signer of the Lima Declaration (see </b><a href="https://www.pciaonline.org/files/Lima_Consensus_Signed.pdf" class="">https://www.pciaonline.org/files/Lima_Consensus_Signed.pdf</a>) - <b class="">and so I don’t think it appropriate to put any pressure on her at this ETHOS meeting. She is conducting an on-going process and I will respect her judgement on this topic (while hoping strongly that she rejects Crispin’s inexplicable (char-avoiding) advice).</b></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: initial; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); width: 876px; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">If Shell wants to fund something, it should be properly writing up whatever that is. </div></div></blockquote><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL: I don’t understand this one. What does “properly” mean? </b></div><div><b class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Clarification, the Shell Foundation once paid my expenses (and Dean Still’s, and maybe more) to London - so I have high regard for their interest in stoves (and hereby thank them for that unusual interest and support). </b></div><div><b class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Problem was that the meeting was called for a day or two after the 9/11 plane crashes in New York City (and so had to be called off).</b></div><div><b class=""><br class=""></b></div><div><b class="">Ron<br class=""></b><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: initial; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); width: 876px; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: initial; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); width: 876px; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Regards </div><div style="font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: initial; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); width: 876px; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Crispin (going off line for a day)</div><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">Dear Camilla, leaders of GACC, and all,<br class=""><br class="">Camilla has confirmed inconsistent results from 5 testing centers. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class="">GACC has announced the "round robin" of testing the same stoves at different testing centers. GACC needs to present about those results at the ETHOS meeting. Ranyee will be there. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class="">Note: The comparative testing is NOT just to make sure that testing centers are doing tests correctly. The results can be used to comment on the tests that are being used. Are there other results such as what Camilla has presented? <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class="">The GACC has paid for these round robin test results, and it would be beneficial to give out that data, and not just say "it was helpful" or something else like that. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class="">Certainly at ETHOS we should hear about this.<br class=""><br class="">Paul<br class=""><pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">www.drtlud.com</a></pre><div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/24/2017 7:16 AM, Camilla Fulland wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="WordSection1"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><a name="_MailEndCompose" class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Dear all,</span></a></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">It is not very often I do participate in the discussion on this list. I do, however, follow it closely. I am writing now to give my support to Xavier and his call to stop the use of the WBT. Being a user of test centres and highly dependent on having valid results for our stoves, I must say I’m deeply concerned about the use of the WBT. Prime has so far tested the same stove in five various test centres recommended by GACC and the results are not just different each time, in some cases they are even the opposite of each other. So how can we as a producer say anything about the efficiency or emissions of our stoves to our donors or potential customers? Basically I can ask, what are you after? A clean stove or an efficient stove? And then I select the report that is suitable for the purpose. To me, the WBT and ranking of stoves using this is a joke and a danger to the credibility of the entire stove industry. Moreover, we are sick of having spent thousands of dollars on test results that mean nothing!</span></span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">The only protocol we do support is the CSI Indonesia protocol as this seems to produce relatively “true” results backed by field results.</span></span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">I raised our concerns about the WBT with the GACC and the Gold Standard in 2015 but no progress for the users of such tests seems to have happened since then. This is highly worrying as millions of dollars are paid out based on manipulated test results “verified and approved” by the GACC as they are the main promoters of this testing method giving it credibility towards other “non-stove” donors. </span></span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Camilla</span></span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span class=""><span class="">Camilla Fulland</span></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span class=""><span class="">CEO | Prime Cookstoves</span></span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class=""><span class=""> </span></span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span class=""></span><a href="mailto:camilla.fulland@primestoves.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span class=""><span class="">camilla.fulland@primestoves.com</span></span><span class=""></span></a><span class=""><span lang="NO-BOK" class=""></span></span><span class=""><span class=""></span></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span class=""><span class="">Norway: +47 48 12 05 37</span></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span class=""><span class="">Indonesia: +628 2147 600 141</span></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span class=""><span class="">Skype: camilla.fulland</span></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span class=""></span><a href="http://www.primestoves.com/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span class=""><span class="">www.primestoves.com</span></span><span class=""></span></a><span class=""><span lang="NO-BOK" class=""></span></span><span class=""><span class=""></span></span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class=""><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></span></p><span class=""></span><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Stoves [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Xavier Brandao<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>onsdag 18. januar 2017 23.08<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org></a><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[Stoves] Advocacy action: ask the GACC to stop promoting the WBT</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"> </p><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">Dear friends,</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">There have been a lot of fierce discussions on the stove discussion list lately. I think most of us are unhappy with a certain number of sector-wide issues.</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">There is one thing in particular that appalled me. I read the study by Riva et al.:</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">"Fuzzy interval propagation of uncertainties in experimental analysis for improved and traditional three–stone fire cookstoves"</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/308900170_2016_Riva_Fuzzy_interval_propagation_of_uncertainties_in_experimental_analysis_for_improved_and_traditional_three_-_Stone_fire_cookstoves" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">https://www.researchgate.net/publication/308900170_2016_Riva_Fuzzy_interval_propagation_of_uncertainties_in_experimental_analysis_for_improved_and_traditional_three_-_Stone_fire_cookstoves</span></a></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">I am appalled that we are in 2017, and again another study shows how much the Water Boiling Test is flawed, and is leading us in the wrong direction(s).</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">I am appalled when I think that Crispin has been telling us about it all these years (10 years now?), and his warnings have too often fallen on deaf ears.</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">Radha Muthiah, the CEO of the GACC, said in her introduction of the GACC 2016 annual report: "The Alliance worked with UNHCR to develop procurement guidelines that include evaluation of stove and fuel performance, affordability, usability, safety, and durability. This is an example of how organizations can adapt international standards to support their priorities and decision-making."</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">Crispin mentioned that the procurement guidelines were based upon the WBT.</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">We are in 2017, and important decisions for thousand of stoves to refugees are still based on the WBT, a test which does not allow us to really know how a stove will perform. This is scary.</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">At the end of last year, Prakti was commissionned by the World Bank to review the testing ecosystem in India. I had the chance to talk with many stakeholders, especially from the U.S., and to have enlightening discussions. Things have barely started to move it seems. A few people have started to see the shortcomings of the WBT. But this is all too slow.</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">What we fail to measure are the damages.</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">How many tests results are probably meaningless, and so useless? How ignorant were we about the real performance of so many stoves? Many of us could see how different performance in the field was, compared to performance in the lab.</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">How many not-at-all-improved stoves were built, promoted, and disseminated?</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">How many stove projects or companies failed because of a test that was problematic in the first place?</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">How many efforts, how much money was lost because of poor testing?</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">Crispin is right, I could not agree more with him on that: before being able to do the R&D that we need so much, we need valid metrics. There is no way around that. This should be our first priority.</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">We need to act now; but, to act and get results, we must focus on what is important, on what is central, on what is foundational. Now, we need good testing; it is as simple as that.</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">The goal is not to point fingers, nor put the blame on anyone. What is done is done, the only thing that matters now is: what do we do from here? We need to work together constructively.</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">We cannot say we didn't know.</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">I discussed with Crispin, Adam, and a few others. I am starting an advocacy action with this email actually.</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">It is very simple.</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">I think we need to address the GACC. Despite all the criticism, the GACC did a lot of work for the stove sector, and, like it or not, is still regarded as our main representative to policy makers and those with the capital to fund meaningful change at scale. We need to be working with them.</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">We would ask the GACC:</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">· to publicly acknowledge that the WBT has major shortcomings</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">· to remove the protocol from its website, so cookstoves sector stakeholders are not using it</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">· to actively promote development and use of other, valid, protocols</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">There were a lot of heated discussions around the WBT in the past. Because of that, other protocols were included in the TC 285 process. This is not good enough.</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">We don't want invalid protocols to be promoted alongside valid ones. I believe the WBT is still the most used protocol, and anyone can download it on the web, and (mis)use it. That does a lot of harm.</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">Here it is, on top of the page:</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><span class="gmail-msohyperlink"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""><a href="http://cleancookstoves.org/technology-and-fuels/testing/protocols.html" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">http://cleancookstoves.org/technology-and-fuels/testing/protocols.html</a></span></span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">Good and valid protocols do exist. They work very well, give more and better data than the WBT. We do not have, at all, to use the WBT. Why would we keep using it at all?</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">Recent articles have shown that we are losing credibility as a sector. We cannot regain it if we keep using invalid testing. I think this sector is comprised of good people who want to do good science and build healthy foundations.</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">If you think you are one of these people, please contact me at my email address to show your support for this initiative:</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><a href="mailto:xvr.brandao@gmail.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span class="gmail-msohyperlink"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">xvr.brandao@gmail.com</span></span></a></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">If you have an opinion on the matter, let's please discuss it here on the stovelist. If you dont agree, if you think there are good scientific grounds for the WBT as a valid protocol, or think for this or another reason that it should still be used, please let's discuss it, in scientific terms, on this list.</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">The outcomes of this discussion will be brought to the GACC, and we will continue discussing it with them.</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">We have all dedicated a significant portion of our lives to this work; let us not let bad science, or past wrong decisions undermine all that we have accomplished, or all that we might. Can we stand together, whatever our differences of opinion on the best stoves, or fuels, or development practices and agree that in testing our assumptions, pseudo-science and demonstrably flawed methods have no place in this sector?</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">Please join, please tell people around you about this initiative.</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">2017 is just starting, let's start it on the right foot.</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">Thanks,</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: justify;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class="">Xavier</span></div></div></div><br class=""><fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset><br class=""><pre class="">_______________________________________________
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</pre></blockquote><br class=""></div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; 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font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">to Send a Message to the list, use the email address</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div></body></html>