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Dear Camilla, leaders of GACC, and all,<br>
<br>
Camilla has confirmed inconsistent results from 5 testing centers.
<br>
<br>
GACC has announced the "round robin" of testing the same stoves at
different testing centers. GACC needs to present about those
results at the ETHOS meeting. Ranyee will be there. <br>
<br>
Note: The comparative testing is NOT just to make sure that testing
centers are doing tests correctly. The results can be used to
comment on the tests that are being used. Are there other results
such as what Camilla has presented? <br>
<br>
The GACC has paid for these round robin test results, and it would
be beneficial to give out that data, and not just say "it was
helpful" or something else like that. <br>
<br>
Certainly at ETHOS we should hear about this.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/24/2017 7:16 AM, Camilla Fulland
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
name="_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
lang="EN-GB">Dear all, <o:p></o:p></span></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
lang="EN-GB">It is not very often I do participate in the
discussion on this list. I do, however, follow it closely.
I am writing now to give my support to Xavier and his call
to stop the use of the WBT. Being a user of test centres
and highly dependent on having valid results for our
stoves, I must say I’m deeply concerned about the use of
the WBT. Prime has so far tested the same stove in five
various test centres recommended by GACC and the results
are not just different each time, in some cases they are
even the opposite of each other. So how can we as a
producer say anything about the efficiency or emissions of
our stoves to our donors or potential customers? Basically
I can ask, what are you after? A clean stove or an
efficient stove? And then I select the report that is
suitable for the purpose. To me, the WBT and ranking of
stoves using this is a joke and a danger to the
credibility of the entire stove industry. Moreover, we are
sick of having spent thousands of dollars on test results
that mean nothing! <o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
lang="EN-GB">The only protocol we do support is the CSI
Indonesia protocol as this seems to produce relatively
“true” results backed by field results. <o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
lang="EN-GB">I raised our concerns about the WBT with the
GACC and the Gold Standard in 2015 but no progress for the
users of such tests seems to have happened since then.
This is highly worrying as millions of dollars are paid
out based on manipulated test results “verified and
approved” by the GACC as they are the main promoters of
this testing method giving it credibility towards other
“non-stove” donors. <o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
lang="EN-GB">Camilla<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri
Light",sans-serif">Camilla Fulland<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri
Light",sans-serif">CEO | Prime Cookstoves<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri
Light",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"></span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:camilla.fulland@primestoves.com"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri
Light",sans-serif;color:#0563C1">camilla.fulland@primestoves.com</span></span><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"></span></a><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri
Light",sans-serif" lang="NO-BOK"> </span></span><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri
Light",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri
Light",sans-serif">Norway: +47 48 12 05 37<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri
Light",sans-serif">Indonesia: +628 2147 600 141<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri
Light",sans-serif">Skype: camilla.fulland<o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"></span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.primestoves.com"><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri
Light",sans-serif;color:#0563C1">www.primestoves.com</span></span><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"></span></a><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri
Light",sans-serif" lang="NO-BOK"> </span></span><span
style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri
Light",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"
lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
<span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"></span>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
Stoves [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Xavier Brandao<br>
<b>Sent:</b> onsdag 18. januar 2017 23.08<br>
<b>To:</b> Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"><stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Stoves] Advocacy action: ask the GACC to
stop promoting the WBT<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Dear
friends,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">There
have been a lot of fierce discussions on the stove
discussion list lately. I think most of us are unhappy
with a certain number of sector-wide issues.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">There
is one thing in particular that appalled me. I read the
study by Riva et al.:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">"Fuzzy
interval propagation of uncertainties in experimental
analysis for improved and traditional three–stone fire
cookstoves"</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/308900170_2016_Riva_Fuzzy_interval_propagation_of_uncertainties_in_experimental_analysis_for_improved_and_traditional_three_-_Stone_fire_cookstoves"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">https://www.researchgate.net/publication/308900170_2016_Riva_Fuzzy_interval_propagation_of_uncertainties_in_experimental_analysis_for_improved_and_traditional_three_-_Stone_fire_cookstoves</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">I
am appalled that we are in 2017, and again another study
shows how much the Water Boiling Test is flawed, and is
leading us in the wrong direction(s).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">I
am appalled when I think that Crispin has been telling us
about it all these years (10 years now?), and his warnings
have too often fallen on deaf ears.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Radha
Muthiah, the CEO of the GACC, said in her introduction of
the GACC 2016 annual report: "The Alliance worked with
UNHCR to develop procurement guidelines that include
evaluation of stove and fuel performance, affordability,
usability, safety, and durability. This is an example of
how organizations can adapt international standards to
support their priorities and decision-making."</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Crispin
mentioned that the procurement guidelines were based upon
the WBT.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">We
are in 2017, and important decisions for thousand of
stoves to refugees are still based on the WBT, a test
which does not allow us to really know how a stove will
perform. This is scary.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">At
the end of last year, Prakti was commissionned by the
World Bank to review the testing ecosystem in India. I had
the chance to talk with many stakeholders, especially from
the U.S., and to have enlightening discussions. Things
have barely started to move it seems. A few people have
started to see the shortcomings of the WBT. But this is
all too slow.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">What
we fail to measure are the damages.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">How
many tests results are probably meaningless, and so
useless? How ignorant were we about the real performance
of so many stoves? Many of us could see how different
performance in the field was, compared to performance in
the lab.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">How
many not-at-all-improved stoves were built, promoted, and
disseminated?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">How
many stove projects or companies failed because of a test
that was problematic in the first place?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">How
many efforts, how much money was lost because of poor
testing?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Crispin
is right, I could not agree more with him on that: before
being able to do the R&D that we need so much, we need
valid metrics. There is no way around that. This should be
our first priority.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">We
need to act now; but, to act and get results, we must
focus on what is important, on what is central, on what is
foundational. Now, we need good testing; it is as simple
as that.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">The
goal is not to point fingers, nor put the blame on anyone.
What is done is done, the only thing that matters now is:
what do we do from here? We need to work together
constructively.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">We
cannot say we didn't know.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">I
discussed with Crispin, Adam, and a few others. I am
starting an advocacy action with this email actually.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">It
is very simple.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">I
think we need to address the GACC. Despite all the
criticism, the GACC did a lot of work for the stove
sector, and, like it or not, is still regarded as our main
representative to policy makers and those with the capital
to fund meaningful change at scale. We need to be working
with them.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">We
would ask the GACC:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">·
to publicly acknowledge that the WBT has major
shortcomings</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">·
to remove the protocol from its website, so cookstoves
sector stakeholders are not using it</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">·
to actively promote development and use of other, valid,
protocols</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">There
were a lot of heated discussions around the WBT in the
past. Because of that, other protocols were included in
the TC 285 process. This is not good enough.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">We
don't want invalid protocols to be promoted alongside
valid ones. I believe the WBT is still the most used
protocol, and anyone can download it on the web, and
(mis)use it. That does a lot of harm.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Here
it is, on top of the page:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
class="gmail-msohyperlink"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://cleancookstoves.org/technology-and-fuels/testing/protocols.html">http://cleancookstoves.org/technology-and-fuels/testing/protocols.html</a></span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Good
and valid protocols do exist. They work very well, give
more and better data than the WBT. We do not have, at all,
to use the WBT. Why would we keep using it at all?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Recent
articles have shown that we are losing credibility as a
sector. We cannot regain it if we keep using invalid
testing. I think this sector is comprised of good people
who want to do good science and build healthy foundations.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">If
you think you are one of these people, please contact me
at my email address to show your support for this
initiative:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:xvr.brandao@gmail.com"><span
class="gmail-msohyperlink"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">xvr.brandao@gmail.com</span></span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">If
you have an opinion on the matter, let's please discuss it
here on the stovelist. If you dont agree, if you think
there are good scientific grounds for the WBT as a valid
protocol, or think for this or another reason that it
should still be used, please let's discuss it, in
scientific terms, on this list.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">The
outcomes of this discussion will be brought to the GACC,
and we will continue discussing it with them.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">We
have all dedicated a significant portion of our lives to
this work; let us not let bad science, or past wrong
decisions undermine all that we have accomplished, or all
that we might. Can we stand together, whatever our
differences of opinion on the best stoves, or fuels, or
development practices and agree that in testing our
assumptions, pseudo-science and demonstrably flawed
methods have no place in this sector?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Please
join, please tell people around you about this initiative.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">2017
is just starting, let's start it on the right foot.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;text-align:justify"><span
style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black">Xavier</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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</pre>
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