<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=us-ascii"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">Ron</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">That may very well be true. But that means there is no way to determine the best stove for a location from a list. At least no affordable way. So sales are based on the Old Boys (and Gals) Club. And also; There is no real research going on that could take these small stoves to a new level. With new research equipment and new ideas I think not exploring this would be sad. : ( Unless we are thinking these small biomass stoves will become obsolete in the near future (PV cells and electric cooktops) I suggest we are obligated to continue to research for cleaner and better stoves. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Regards</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Frank </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jan 26, 2017, at 8:13 PM, <a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net" class="">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class=""><div style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt;" class=""><div class="">List, cc Nikhil<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> I submit this is both a first for this list and a best explanation of Nikhil's stove outlook: </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;" data-mce-style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;" class="">"<em class="">Another reason the good old performance metrics of fuel consumption and emission rates need to be junked. What matters is how the stoves are used in practice, not what some fanatics come up with in labs. "</em></span></div><div class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;" data-mce-style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;" data-mce-style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;" class=""> Who agrees with Nikhil? I'll report (possibly tomorrow) from ETHOS on the views there of the "lab fanatics"</span></div><div class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;" data-mce-style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;" data-mce-style="font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;" class="">Ron</span></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><hr id="zwchr" class=""><div style="font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; text-decoration: none; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;" class=""><b class="">From: </b>"Traveller" <<a href="mailto:miata98@gmail.com" class="">miata98@gmail.com</a>><br class=""><b class="">To: </b>"Frans Peeters" <<a href="mailto:peetersfrans@telenet.be" class="">peetersfrans@telenet.be</a>><br class=""><b class="">Cc: </b>"Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" class="">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br class=""><b class="">Sent: </b>Thursday, January 26, 2017 8:32:07 PM<br class=""><b class="">Subject: </b>[Stoves] Steam cooking (Re: Frans)<br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">Frans: <br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div>Thank you for bringing up steam cooking. Is "ambient steam cooking" different from "pressure steam cooking"? <br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div>Liquid/gas fuel stoves with pressure cookers transformed the lives of about a billion cooks so far. <br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div>I cannot say the same of biomass household stoves, but it should be possible. <br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div>I find your "1 kg wood = 4 kWh" incomprehensible. That's just energy content. Delivered to pot, who knows? <br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div>I think the bigger point is, even a biomass stove that facilitates use of pressure cookers makes a huge difference in time and energy spent. </div><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Another reason the good old performance metrics of fuel consumption and emission rates need to be junked. What matters is how the stoves are used in practice, not what some fanatics come up with in labs. <br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div>Nikhil</div><div dir="ltr" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="ltr" class=""><span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">Message: 8</span><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2017 13:59:16 +0100</span><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">From: "Frans Peeters " <</span><a href="mailto:peetersfrans@telenet.be" style="font-size:12.8px" target="_blank" class="">peetersfrans@telenet.be</a><span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">></span><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"</span><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><span style="font-size:12.8px" class=""> <</span><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="font-size:12.8px" target="_blank" class="">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">></span><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">Subject: Re: [Stoves] Advocacy action: ask the GACC to stop promoting</span><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><span style="font-size:12.8px" class=""> the WBT</span><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">Message-ID: <000001d277d4$005c8080$</span><span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">01158180$@</span><a href="http://telenet.be/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" style="font-size:12.8px" class="">telenet.be</a><span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">></span><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"</span><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">HALLO JUDI AND STOVERS</span><br class=""><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><span style="font-size:12.8px" class=""> Ambient steam coockers are of 800-900 watt el Power used 30 minuts for cooking !</span><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">For a dual meal less than 0,5 KWh is used = 0,12 ? or 0,06$ / meal about</span><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">1Kg wood=4KWh</span><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">0,25 KWh=62gram wood/meal should be possible with low losses .</span><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">Regards</span><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">Frans</span><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><br style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><span style="font-size:12.8px" class="">Verzonden: woensdag 25 januari 2017 </span><span class="gmail-aBn" style="font-size:12.8px"><span class="gmail-aQJ">8:44</span></span><span style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:12.8px" class=""><br class="">--------- </span></div><div style="font-size:12.8px" class=""><span style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:12.8px" class="">(India +91) 909 995 2080</span><span face="georgia, serif" data-mce-style="font-family: georgia, serif;" style="font-family: georgia, serif;" class=""><br class=""><i class=""> </i></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
</div>
<br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">Stoves mailing list<br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br class=""><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" class="">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br class="">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br class="">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/<br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br class="">Stoves mailing list<br class=""><br class="">to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br class=""><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" class="">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br class=""><br class="">to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br class="">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<br class=""><br class="">for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br class="">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/<br class=""><br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""><div class="">
<div class="">Thanks</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Frank</div><div class="">Frank Shields</div><div class="">Gabilan Laboratory</div><div class="">Keith Day Company, Inc.</div><div class="">1091 Madison Lane</div><div class="">Salinas, CA 93907</div><div class="">(831) 246-0417 cell</div><div class="">(831) 771-0126 office</div><div class=""><a href="mailto:fShields@keithdaycompany.com" class="">fShields@keithdaycompany.com</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><a href="mailto:franke@cruzio.com" class="">franke@cruzio.com</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br class=""></body></html>