<html><head></head><body lang="en-US" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); line-height: initial;"> <div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Dear CPP, Nikhil, et al, </div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">I am in love with you hard headed physical scientists again. It appears an official marriage ceremony is imminent between to Mr Hard Science and Madame Soft Humanity. How great is that. </div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">The "two cultures" are turning their "confusing" differences into a strong "fusion" of these differences to create a disciplined "unity in diversity" that combines the measurement of hard science variables with the assessment of soft human preferences and judgments. It appears that the CSI stove test protocol created by you and your team in Indonesia intelligently converts culturally mandated patterns of stove use into technically observable variables that simulate actual household burn and cooking cycles in the field. </div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">According to Crispin, the CSI stove test protocols, procedures, and instrumentation are much better than the WBT in predicting the performance of different stoves in the field. Is that claim by Crispin true?</div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Why not do some public science and objective observation to find out what stove performance test ensamble best predicts technical stove performance and customer perception of stove performance? Why not have a high noon show down between the latest version of the WBT and the CSI test protocols and procedures? May the better stove performance test win!! </div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Yes indeedy. I am calling out the proponents of the WBTesting and the CSI Testing. It is time to put up or shut up. It is high time for a high noon "evidence based" duel to the death. Please my brothers, sisters, friends and enemies let's do this thing and move on. I'd like to stop the trash talking and start the duel. I'm one of Crispin's retainers and there will be many others I am sure. Maybe Ron, Dean, Kirk Smith and others will be the retainers for the WBT. </div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">In fact if the Bioenergy Stove List organized a straw poll among its members on which test protocol and procedures they think is most likely to win the up coming shoot out at the OK Corral Such a plebicite would democratically measure the stove testing predelictions of this community of stove activists. We could of course wager real money on the outcome of the shoot out between the two testing ensambles. A straw poll would be revealing in anticipation of the actual scientific duel beteen WBT and CSI test protocol ensembles.</div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Also, the retainers for the dueling test protocols need to publicly agree upon the actual content of each ensembles metrics, instruments, and procedures but the test partisans get to decide what constitutes their best protocols AKA the WBT and CSI as the dueling parties AKA gunslingers. Maybe the WBT/CSI shoot out could be held at a mutually agreed upon neutral national lab some where convenient. </div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span style="font-size: initial; line-height: initial; text-align: initial;"><br></span></div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span style="font-size: initial; line-height: initial; text-align: initial;">I am hoping for a fatal outcome: maybe one, maybe both test ensembles will be killed off and buried. I can live with either outcome. It would be a blessing if we get a kill shot to the heart or head of either stove performance test protocol. Unfortunately we must be prepared for a range of non fatal outcomes from the long over due shoot out between "competing" stove testing ensembles. </span></div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span style="font-size: initial; line-height: initial; text-align: initial;"><br></span></div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span style="font-size: initial; line-height: initial; text-align: initial;">Repeating myself: it's time to "fish or cut bait", not both. This will be the Michelson-Morley experiment of stove science to determine whether or not the light and gravity propagate through an assumed medium of "aether"; in terms of stoves, is it useful or predictive of actual stove performance in the community to test stove efficiency out of cultural and social context? That is the question!</span></div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span style="font-size: initial; line-height: initial; text-align: initial;"><br></span></div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span style="font-size: initial; line-height: initial; text-align: initial;">In search,</span></div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span style="font-size: initial; line-height: initial; text-align: initial;"><br></span></div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span style="font-size: initial; line-height: initial; text-align: initial;">Cecil</span></div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></div><div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></div> <div style="width: 100%; font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br></div> <div style="font-size: initial; font-family: Calibri, 'Slate Pro', sans-serif, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.</div> <table width="100%" style="background-color:white;border-spacing:0px;"> <tbody><tr><td colspan="2" style="font-size: initial; text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"> <div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in; font-family: Tahoma, 'BB Alpha Sans', 'Slate Pro'; font-size: 10pt;"> <div><b>From: </b>Crispin Pemberton-Pigott</div><div><b>Sent: </b>Sunday, January 29, 2017 1:33 AM</div><div><b>To: </b>Stoves</div><div><b>Reply To: </b>Discussion of biomass cooking stoves</div><div><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Stoves] Advocacy action: ask the GACC to stop promoting the WBT</div></div></td></tr></tbody></table><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(186, 188, 209); border-top-width: 1pt; font-size: initial; text-align: initial; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"></div><br><div id="_originalContent" style="">
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Dear Nikhil</div>
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<span style="font-size:13px; line-height:initial">"...the Stove Performance Inventory and other test results do not have general validity. "</span></div>
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<span style="font-size:13px; line-height:initial">There is no such thing as 'general validity' meaning 'true in all circumstances' or 'reasonably true' any more than a car can be tested with one grade of gasoline and be efficient and the conclusion drawn that
it will 'perform well' with all other grades of gasoline. </span></div>
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<span style="font-size:13px; line-height:initial">Stuff and nonsense. </span></div>
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<span style="font-size:13px; line-height:initial">Regarding the matter of the 'burn sequence' (which is what a stoves does, ignorant of the contents of the pot). This is a critical matter. </span></div>
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<span style="font-size:13px; line-height:initial; text-align:initial">If you can, please read the documentation, what little there is, on the CSI test method. It describes in its simplest form how to observe a community, document various burn sequences, combine
the mathematically into a single, technical test' that 'puts the stove through its paces' while simulating an 'average cooking sequence'. </span></div>
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<span style="font-size:13px; line-height:initial; text-align:initial">That average is mere guess, it is the combination of behaviours that represent, if conducted daily for a month, for example, all the cooking that the stove would do in a month. This is far
more sophisticated than guessing at a single meal's tasks. It can be weighted by meal and task frequency. It can be modified to represent seasons of the availability of certain fuels seasonally. </span></div>
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<span style="font-size:13px; line-height:initial; text-align:initial">The combination of stove, fuel and grouped tasks converted into a single technical test makes a reasonable prediction of how the stove will perform
<i>on average</i><span> in a given context. </span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size:13px; line-height:initial; text-align:initial"><span>We could even include fuel switching and occasional weddings if necessary. </span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size:13px; line-height:initial; text-align:initial"><span>The method rests on properly identified behaviours and patterns of use, plus some understanding of how fuels are selected, used or avoided.
</span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size:13px; line-height:initial; text-align:initial"><span>The technical test (TT) is validated against the sum of, for example emissions, and registered with a number. I proposed this a number of times in various forums and it has been well
received by many sectors. The point is to gradually build up a set of realistic TT's so manufacturers anywhere can optimise their products to handle the fuels and tasks in particular markets. </span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size:13px; line-height:initial; text-align:initial"><span>Labs that are not capable of validating technical tests can still use them once delineated. If I want to sell stoves in Guandong I will look up the TT's that are relevant to the scale
of cooking: home, small restaurant, single working man, and develop the stove around that test sequence. </span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size:13px; line-height:initial; text-align:initial"><span><br>
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<span style="font-size:13px; line-height:initial; text-align:initial"><span>The CSI provides a methodology for establishing the cooking sequences, then creating a TT, then running the experiment. Any relevant cooking simulation is in some way a facet of this
multi-faceted jewel. The method is built on principles and two sound sciences, social and physical. </span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size:13px; line-height:initial; text-align:initial"><span>Regards </span></span></div>
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<span style="font-size:13px; line-height:initial; text-align:initial"><span>Crispin
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<div dir="ltr"><span style="font-size:12.8px">Crispin: <br>
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Thank you for clarification about "burn sequence". From what I remember, the trouble with WBT - apart from the conceptual errors and manipulations of the protocol - is not that it is for boiling water but that the "burn sequence" is not representative of cooking
tasks generally. Maybe in some contexts, but then we do not yet have an inventory of contexts and burn sequences. Combined with the fact that we do not have an inventory of biomass qualities (including chemistries), "traditional" stove types (other than "three-stone",
even which has a great diversity in burn sequences), the Stove Performance Inventory and other test results do not have general validity. <br>
<br>
I don't think specifying one "burn sequence" is enough even for individual contexts. There should be at least five to ten burn sequences and variations in timing (daily, seasonal) and quantities (including for water/space heating as a co-product) for individual
contexts. That way, some changes in cooking cultures can be accommodated over a medium-term (five years). <br>
<br>
Any international standardization of household cooking is ludicrous. Hence, WHO IAQG and ISO IWA process are also, I am afraid, ludicrous. <br>
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Or worse. <br>
<br>
Nikhil<br>
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----------------------------</span><br style="font-size:12.8px">
<br style="font-size:12.8px">
<span style="font-size:12.8px">Message: 13</span><br style="font-size:12.8px">
<span style="font-size:12.8px">Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2017 08:24:36 +0000</span><br style="font-size:12.8px">
<span style="font-size:12.8px">From: Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <</span><a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" style="font-size:12.8px">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a><span style="font-size:12.8px">></span><br style="font-size:12.8px">
<span style="font-size:12.8px">To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves</span><br style="font-size:12.8px">
<span style="font-size:12.8px"> <</span><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="font-size:12.8px">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.<wbr>org</a><span style="font-size:12.8px">></span><br style="font-size:12.8px">
<span style="font-size:12.8px">Subject: Re: [Stoves] Advocacy action: ask the GACC to stop promoting</span><br style="font-size:12.8px">
<span style="font-size:12.8px"> the WBT</span><br style="font-size:12.8px">
<span style="font-size:12.8px">Message-ID:</span><br style="font-size:12.8px">
<span style="font-size:12.8px"> <</span><a href="mailto:YTOPR01MB02353B66DB9626376FA9BAC6B1760@YTOPR01MB0235.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM" style="font-size:12.8px">YTOPR01MB02353B66DB9626376FA9<wbr>BAC6B1760@YTOPR01MB0235.<wbr>CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM</a><span style="font-size:12.8px">></span><br style="font-size:12.8px">
<br style="font-size:12.8px">
<span style="font-size:12.8px">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"</span><br style="font-size:12.8px">
<br style="font-size:12.8px">
<span style="font-size:12.8px">Dear Jiddu</span><br style="font-size:12.8px">
<br style="font-size:12.8px">
<br style="font-size:12.8px">
<br style="font-size:12.8px">
<span style="font-size:12.8px">I want to take a moment to correct an impression you left in your timely message about the problems you have experience as a physicist and stove tester with the WBT.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px">
<br style="font-size:12.8px">
<span style="font-size:12.8px">?The WBT protocol is unreproducible. In my opinion largely due to its vague boiling and simmering phases, where I believe something like cooking power (in Watts) is much more suitable.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px">
<br style="font-size:12.8px">
<span style="font-size:12.8px">I am, like Camilla, a supporter of the CSI Indonesia protocol. It's repoducible and relevant. However, it is only relevant for Indonesia and hence more relevant protocols need to be developed.?</span><br style="font-size:12.8px">
<br style="font-size:12.8px">
<span style="font-size:12.8px">It is a misunderstanding to call the Indonesian cooking sequence a ?protocol?. That is a burn sequence, to be exact, and is not ?part of the CSI protocol?.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px">
<br style="font-size:12.8px">
<span style="font-size:12.8px">This must be understood clearly it has been widely and erroneously mentioned that if the test sequence (burn cycle, in outer jurisdictions) sis changed, it constitutes a ?different protocol?. This is a misunderstanding.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px">
<br style="font-size:12.8px">
<span style="font-size:12.8px">A testing protocol sets out what to measure and how well to </span><span class="gmail-il" style="font-size:12.8px">do</span><span style="font-size:12.8px"> that, how to calculate and what to report, and in what form. It is not
something to </span><span class="gmail-il" style="font-size:12.8px">do</span><span style="font-size:12.8px"> with the sequence of operations of the stove that are being measured. You can have 1 protocol and 1000 tests sequences representing 1000 meals or patterns
of use.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px">
<br style="font-size:12.8px">
<span style="font-size:12.8px">So in order to use the CSI protocol, all you need is a relevant use sequence starting with ignition and ending at some point. After the sequence (previously described) is validated as representing what you are trying to emulate
you can use it to make assessments of how the stoves will perform on that basis.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px">
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<span style="font-size:12.8px">The protocol remains the same.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px">
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<span style="font-size:12.8px">This is one reason why the same protocol can be used to test low pressure boilers, space heating stoves, cooking functions or all three at the same time.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px">
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<span style="font-size:12.8px">Regards</span><br style="font-size:12.8px">
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<span style="font-size:12.8px">Crispin</span><br style="font-size:12.8px">
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