<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Dear Crispin,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">We have spent years and years and come up with a list of WBT trying to get some Efficiency calculation. Who cares? Does anyone out there care about efficiency calculations? The only possible way that could be at all helpful is if you add half the energy of biomass into the combustion chamber you get the same efficiency value. That is the amount of energy in the biomass will heat the same amount of water. Due to changes in air flow, waste heat in the walls, how the fuel is packed, type and shape of biomass etc it will never do that. You can’t give a stove an Efficiency value. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">We need to find the properties of biomass that will work in a combustion chamber. Meaning it will light, create heat and do a task with approved results. 1) We need a list of biomass properties that make a difference. 2) we need to develop test methods to quantify those properties 3) we need a procedure to test stoves to determine the stoves limits for these properties 4) develop a form to be included with each stove as to the biomass properties that work best in this stove 5) test wild biomass for those properties and some sort of chart to determine if the stove will work with that fuel. If it shows it will work then sell them the stove and be assured it will work and what handling of the biomass is needed. Whether or not the people is willing to do the necessary preparation needed on the biomass is another separate issue. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">When any group is ready to start working on the list of properties that make a difference and develop test methods to measure those properties - let me know. I am now willing to help if wanted but not likely much longer. I still have somewhat of a lab to work in. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;"><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Aprovecho has claimed many time to have done exactly that. I challenge this claim. They optimised their stoves to get ‘good numbers’ on the WBT which does not report the actual performance. Sometimes it is similar to the real values, sometimes is it not. It largely depends on how much char is produced. The more the char, the greater the over-claim.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class="" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I agree with the above - when it was used to compare stoves. It worked when determining optimum setup, information that could be used for all stoves. As for using to compare stoves, that came when the time was needed for comparing stoves and there was no other procedure for doing so. There is still no procedure for doing so. Hats off to Aprovecho IMO. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;"><div class=""><div class="" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div></div></div></blockquote><div class="">Thanks</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Frank</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Feb 14, 2017, at 9:27 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" class="">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Dear Frank<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">The problems with the WBT are more fundamental than you describe.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">It must be faced, square on, that the WBT calculation<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">does not</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>provide the efficiency. The formula is wrong! <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">If you create a stove as you suggest, and measure the efficiency using the WBT, and it says the cooking efficiency is 40%, you would be happy. Then if you used a different test like the Chinese one, it might say the efficiency is 25%. So, which is it?<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">I am telling you that there is a problem with the calculation, not the concept of testing.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Here is something practical you can do to prove it: Get a set of numbers from a stove test, the fuel consumed, the char balance and so on, water masses and temps. You can invent one or use a real stove. Then enter the same set of numbers into the various versions of the WBT:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">VITA 1985<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">WBT 2.0<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">WBT 3.0<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">WBT 3.1<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">WBT 4.0<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">WBT 4.1<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">WBT 4.1.2 of October 2011<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">WBT 4.1.2 of April 2012<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">WBT 4.1.2 of June 2012<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">And finally<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">WBT 4.2.3 of 2015.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">You will get 10 different answers.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">And not one of them will be correct because there are systematic errors in the concepts underlying the calculations plus errors in the formulas themselves.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">‘Perfecting’ a stove using incorrectly calculated metrics is not going to lead to stove nirvana. The Indian, SeTAR and Chinese tests all perform the calculation more or less correctly. The Indian test uses an inappropriate fuel in that the stove has to be optimised to that (100% dry) fuel in order to perform well. No one in India uses such fuel so the stove is optimised to an inappropriate air pre-heating and air-fuel ratio. They have been advised to revise the test.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">The Chinese test uses a very different approach conceptually as it includes a burn-out phase which raises the reported efficiency by about 11% of value. That is something applied to all stoves and fuels so the result is ‘fair’. There is a small miscalculation in the efficiency from double-counting. (For fun, I challenge the readers of this list to find it. It escaped detection for decades.) It can easily be corrected. They have been advised to revise that calculation.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">The WBT contains several important errors. When the IWA text was proposed, I reviewed it and reported some of these errors to the committee. For the most part they did not correct the errors, marking them as ‘too small to worry about’ and ‘to be handled later’ and ‘for later discussion’, that sort of thing. Thus there was public input on the IWA text but the corrective information was not applied to the result.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">In the IWA meeting numerous discussions were held on metrics, names of metrics, ideas about what could be in the document. A lot of the meeting time was taken up with presentations on how the document was prepared. The tiers were presented and as the numbers were dependent on WBT results, many of us knew they were unimportant as they would have to change when the test was corrected. The IWA event was conducted in the following manner: “We have already agreed in Lima on what should be in an international test method so all we have to do is rubber-stamp it and we can go home.”<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">That was of course not acceptable as the Lime event just gave the WBT 4.1.2 the nod without examining it closely nor correcting the manifold errors. To get our (South Africa – 6 delegates) agreement, it was critical to have any test method approved by external, expert reviewers, which obviously had not been done before. This text was added and we all voted for it. It would be quite incorrect for anyone to suggest that we approved of the whole content because, for example, the IWA has 9 performance metrics and the WBT only produced on of them, efficiency, and calculated that incorrectly. Yet it was the ‘default method’. With only one metric being produced, and there of the nine being physically invalid, there was little hope the IWA and its testing and tiers could deliver on the promise of ‘better stoves’.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Consider what happened since: the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">requirement</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>to have all test method examined externally by experts was<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">never</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>implemented for the WBT. It would of course fail because of the invalid metrics and the bad calculations.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">When new got to the ISO we were told, “The IWA in ins place and everyone is using it so all we really have to do is rubber-stamp it and we can all go home.” That of course didn’t happen. Votes were held kicking out all WBT-forms of test and also the tiers. Let me repeat: the vote by the experts was that there should be no WBT and no tiers in the Standard.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">If you find tiers in the ISO standard it is not because the experts wanted them or voted them to be there. For the IWA it didn’t really matter because the requirement to have the test methods reviewed would have killed any tiers they were based on – assuming that the IWA was actually implemented, which of course it was not. People pick the bits they like.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">></span>The WBT used exact sized, dry and consistent wood type for the testing to establish the best gaps, insulation, height and etc. measuring performance of energy entering a pot of water.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Aprovecho has claimed many time to have done exactly that. I challenge this claim. They optimised their stoves to get ‘good numbers’ on the WBT which does not report the actual performance. Sometimes it is similar to the real values, sometimes is it not. It largely depends on how much char is produced. The more the char, the greater the over-claim.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">The AWBT from GERES is better on that particular metric, even though it is not perfect. Bottom line: Do not develop a stove using the WBT. It will mislead you.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Regards<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Crispin<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div></div></div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; 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widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" class="">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a></span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" class="">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a></span></div></blockquote></div><br class=""><div class="">
<div class="">Thanks</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Frank</div><div class="">Frank Shields</div><div class="">Gabilan Laboratory</div><div class="">Keith Day Company, Inc.</div><div class="">1091 Madison Lane</div><div class="">Salinas, CA 93907</div><div class="">(831) 246-0417 cell</div><div class="">(831) 771-0126 office</div><div class=""><a href="mailto:fShields@keithdaycompany.com" class="">fShields@keithdaycompany.com</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><a href="mailto:franke@cruzio.com" class="">franke@cruzio.com</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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