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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-ZA link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Dear Ranyee<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>I find it difficult to credit that “</span><span lang=EN-US>all the participants from about 20 countries went through the entire IWA draft line by line, word by word. “ <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>There is the counter view as given in Crispin’s email today “</span><span lang=EN-CA>The IWA event was conducted in the following manner: “We have already agreed in Lima on what should be in an international test method so all we have to do is rubber-stamp it and we can go home.” That was of course not acceptable as the Lima event just gave the WBT 4.1.2 the nod without examining it closely nor correcting the manifold errors. To get our (South Africa – 6 delegates) agreement, it was critical to have any test method approved by external, expert reviewers, which obviously had not been done before. This text was added and we all voted for it. It would be quite incorrect for anyone to suggest that we approved of the whole content because, for example, the IWA has 9 performance metrics and the WBT only produced one of them, efficiency, and calculated that incorrectly.”<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA>This tends to confirm Tami’s view.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA>I think the beauty of the ISO process is that we are starting afresh from first principles and leaving some of the historical baggage behind. Can we perhaps forget the IWA?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Prof Philip Lloyd<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Energy Institute, CPUT<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>SARETEC, Sachs Circle<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Bellville<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Tel 021 959 4323<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Cell 083 441 5247<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>PA Nadia 021 959 4330<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ranyee Chiang<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 15, 2017 5:37 AM<br><b>To:</b> Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] Differences in stove testing<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US>Dear all,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US>The IWA meeting in the Hague was now 5 year ago, so I can see that it would be difficult to remember exactly what happened. The issue of who provided input into the IWA is an important one, so I think it is important to correct misrepresentations of what happened. During the IWA meeting, all the participants from about 20 countries went through the entire IWA draft line by line, word by word. There were opportunities for people to exclude the Tiers at that time, but that was not raised by any of the participants. The participants also developed resolutions which were reviewed and approved by all the participants at the end of the meeting. The draft of the IWA was developed by mostly experts from the US. There were also 3 webinars prior to the IWA meeting in the Hague to collect and integrate input from a wide group of stakeholders. And then of course, during the IWA, participants were welcome to and did comment on every single part of the IWA.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US>It is still true that the current ISO process has more thorough than the IWA, but the process was not as Tami described in her e-mail.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US>Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US>Ranyee<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span lang=EN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US> "Bond, Tami C" <<a href="mailto:yark@illinois.edu">yark@illinois.edu</a>><br><b>Date:</b> February 13, 2017 at 11:41:27 PM EST<br><b>To:</b> "Ronal W. Larson" <<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> Discussion of biomass <<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> <b>Re: [Stoves] Differences in stove testing</b><br><b>Reply-To:</b> Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Hi Ron, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>I so much appreciate your feedback!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>To be clear, I am not looking for other metrics— some have already been proposed in WG1— although your discussions will likely be fruitful and possibly taken up later. I am ONLY, at this time, looking for precedents for defining an energy efficiency or thermal efficiency in the way that has been previously described, with a subtraction in the denominator. Other questions may come later; I believe it’s wise to take one thing at a time— focus helps. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>I leave the question of Tiers for further discussion on this list. It is not under discussion (within WG1) at this time, although perhaps it will come later.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Since you were not in The Hague to witness the process of the IWA, I suggest that perhaps you might not want to lean on it as support. No opportunities were offered to modify the IWA document, but only to provide resolutions preceding it. Therefore, even if the assembled company had wished to exclude the Tiers, they would have been unable to do so. The current ISO process has a more thorough discussion, and includes more international stakeholders, than did the IWA, which was largely written only by members of the United States delegation. I encourage you to wait for coming documents before claiming that any particular position is supported by the entire international community.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Tami<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 style='border-collapse:collapse'><tr><td width=138 valign=top style='width:103.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://www.cleancookstoves.org/"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=120 height=77 id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image002.jpg@01D28782.864FF150" alt="Global_Aliance_Clean_Cookstoves_blue_v23"></span></a><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=330 valign=top style='width:247.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Ranyee Chiang, Ph.D.</span></b><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Director of Standards, Technology and Fuels</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D'><a href="tel:1-202-448-4677"><span style='color:#1F497D'>1.202.448.4677</span></a> <a href="skype:ranyee.chiang?add"><span style='color:#1F497D'>Skype: ranyee.chiang</span></a></span><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#1F497D'><a href="mailto:rchiang@cleancookstoves.org"><span style='color:#1F497D'>rchiang@cleancookstoves.org</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr></table><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></body></html>