<div dir="ltr"><div><b>Paul: </b>(a photocopy of Smith-Sagar OpEd attached)<br><br>1. Proposed subsidy for LPG in the coming year is about $2.4 billion an that for kerosene about half as much. <a href="http://www.livemint.com/Politics/h0H3mXXNzD41VgEe7SFpXO/Budget-2017-Subsidy-bill-rises-3-to-Rs24-lakh-crore.html" target="_blank">Budget 2017: Subsidy bill rises 3% to Rs2.4 lakh crore</a>. (Lakh is 1,00,000 and crore is 1,00,00,000 so a lakh crore is 10^12 or a trillion. Rs 16,076 crore is 160.7 billion and today's rate is Rs 67/$).<br><br>2. Your "chit chat" impressions are on-the-mark. Modi is a master of exaggeration (and that is not my exaggeration). The LPG bonanza is to get his face on billboards and win women's votes. This wasn't his scheme and health ministry had little to do with it, but he claims credit. That's political skullduggery as usual. I still haven't fogured out how the subsidy amounts are set and whether the Finance Minister is free to choose as world oil price changes. India has a very opaque system of energy pricing and quotas (state level, customer level.) Byzantine. </div><div><br></div><div>3. India imports LPG and is a small fish in the world market still. (Haven't looked at forecasts. India also has production rights in oil and gas elsewhere and LPG from refining foreign crude for re-export probably leaves quite a bit of LPG behind.) As Mo Adelman famously put it, "Earth's oil resources are finite because the earth is finite. Nobody knows what the limits are." Or, "What matters is not how much is left in the ground, but what the marginal cost is." India's non-subsidized LPG use is probably inching to a half of the subsidized LPG. Will check the numbers. Oil companies are humongous money earners for the government. <br><br>4. By some calculations, GHG emissions "per meal cooked" - or net MJ delivered to the pot - are LOWER for LPG than for traditional unprocessed biomass solids with uncontrolled combustion. Depends on whether cooling aerosols are netted out (they are not for coal power, for instance), and of course on fuel chemistry, stove type, operating practices, and methods of measurement. Also depends on whether one counts NMVOCs and BC, uses 20-yr GWP (my preference) and falls in the "renewable biomass" trap. (I for one don't; it doesn't matter if the next ton of photosynthesis in the garden opposite my apartment sequesters the CO2 from my charcoal stove or my car or the gas power plant a mile away or CH4 from cattle manure still found in Indian cities.) I think Bond and Sun published a paper in ESD in 2003 and before that Kirk Smith and others in ARRE in 2000. </div><div><br>5. I don't hold every gram of CO2 responsible for climate change. Balancing the earth on the back of the poor is another instance of what Britta Victor calls "accidental imperialism". (Another post soon. I happen to think CDM, Voluntary Carbon is the prettied up imperialism as the European churches were, until they went native. However, I helped with some earliest CO2 offset projects and still see some value in them, just not in the transaction costs and paperwork to keep finicky beancounters employed and happy.) The poor suffer the climate whether or not it changes. At least, make their lives easier subsidizing food and fuel. <br><br>I hope you get good press. No need to blame LPG subsidies; stake a claim for stove and fuel subsidies, first the development and marketing costs. You might be blocked by MNRE. You ought to get support from GACC; it claims to be a GOI partner.<br><br>----------------</div><div><br></div><div><b>Crispin:</b><br><br>Yes, the very first line is not only inaccurate, it's outright nonsense - "<span style="font-size:12.8px">Air pollution kills more Indians than any other risk factor with </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">estimates ranging from 15 to 20 lakh premature deaths annually." <br><br>Risk factors don't kill, diseases kill. <br><br>Attributability is not causality. <br><br>But why do diseases happen? Something has to be blamed, no? God or Satan, you or me. Reason points to "environmental factors", and reason breeds dogma, as it did with theologians who specialized in angels or deos. These days IHME folks perform "super-human" tasks as they claim, and "got away with murder" as they confess. <br><br>Why does it matter? Public health folks have been at it for decades now, negotiating attributability by means of heroic assumptions and bad data. Kirk Smith has noted the limitations of such adventures. <br><br>Maybe premature death should be counted at age 60. Maybe air pollution will cause disease and eventually death for 1 million people in 2040 but because of ambient air pollution. Maybe childhood pneumonia is better treated by vaccine and prevented by better hygiene and nutrition. Maybe LPG stoves have no health benefit; people want them like they want pizzas or wine. So what?<br><br>The proper but awkward framing is, "Of some 10 million Indians who died last year before the age 86, the collective blame for their deaths could be allocated to various risk factors of which air pollution was the largest; 15-20% of such collective mortality can be attributed to it."<br><br>All this comes from the assumption of equitoxicity and spurious precision of the Integrated Exposure Response. Nobody just breathes Household Air Pollution, nor does anybody have good statistics on household fuel use, cooking and heating practices, or mobility, concentrations, exposure, disease incidence, causes of disability or even death. <br><br>Academic exercises are for academics; biomass stovers can't even get test protocols right after 40 years! Indian public stove program went Up in Smoke. <br><br>Bureaucrats won't let private sector succeed where they failed. What do you think they are - holier than US evangelists? <br><br>Some people find God in late life. I have been possessed by Satan; I see the drudgery of cooking, the plain needless inconvenience apart from the smoke, as a culprit for severe mental health burden. Even when ALRIs are reduced from controlling all PM2.5 - ha! - cooks will complain about the time they have to spend on cooking. The IWA famously took out protocols that would be "contextual"; it is a coup by thermodynamicists, then murder by WHO. </span></div><div><br><div><div class="m_-3003988973564561138gmail-m_3386161304311350867m_-618649627987590231gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:small">The Indian Environment minister has mildly rebuked - rightly, I think - the HEI/IHME drivel on deaths from air pollution. Front page in the Ahmedabad edition of Indian Express yesterday. </span><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr"><div><br>Attributable is not avoidable. The promises of averting DALYs are moneymaking propaganda ventures. </div><div><br></div><div>N<br><br><a href="http://indianexpress.com/article/india/not-sure-about-data-in-foreign-reports-on-air-pollution-deaths-environment-minister-4530828" target="_blank">http://indianexpress.com/artic<wbr>le/india/not-sure-about-data-i<wbr>n-foreign-reports-on-air-pollu<wbr>tion-deaths-environment-minist<wbr>er-4530828</a><br><div class="m_-3003988973564561138gmail-m_3386161304311350867m_-618649627987590231m_1493135756068247701gmail-row" style="outline:0px;box-sizing:border-box;border:0px;margin:0px auto;padding:0px;font-variant-numeric:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:medium;line-height:inherit;font-family:roboto,sans-serif;max-width:990px;width:990px;clear:both;overflow:hidden;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><div class="m_-3003988973564561138gmail-m_3386161304311350867m_-618649627987590231m_1493135756068247701gmail-heading-part" style="outline:0px;box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px 0px 1px;border-top-style:initial;border-right-style:initial;border-bottom-style:solid;border-left-style:initial;border-top-color:initial;border-right-color:initial;border-bottom-color:rgb(218,218,218);border-left-color:initial;margin:10px 0px 20px;padding:0px 0px 10px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-family:inherit;overflow:hidden;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;clear:both"><h1 style="outline:0px;box-sizing:border-box;border:0px;margin:0px;padding:10px 0px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:45px;line-height:50px;font-family:"droid serif",serif">Not sure about data in foreign reports on air pollution deaths: Environment Minister</h1><h2 class="m_-3003988973564561138gmail-m_3386161304311350867m_-618649627987590231m_1493135756068247701gmail-synopsis" style="outline:0px;box-sizing:border-box;border:0px;margin:0px;padding:0px 0px 10px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:400;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:20px;line-height:26px;font-family:"droid serif",serif;color:rgb(107,107,107)">Government policies could not be framed solely on the findings of international reports, he maintained.</h2><h2 class="m_-3003988973564561138gmail-m_3386161304311350867m_-618649627987590231m_1493135756068247701gmail-synopsis" style="outline:0px;box-sizing:border-box;border:0px;margin:0px;padding:0px 0px 10px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:400;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:20px;line-height:26px;font-family:"droid serif",serif;color:rgb(107,107,107)">Written by <a href="http://indianexpress.com/profile/author/amitabh-sinha/" class="m_-3003988973564561138gmail-m_3386161304311350867m_-618649627987590231m_1493135756068247701gmail-bulletProj" id="m_-3003988973564561138gmail-m_3386161304311350867m_-618649627987590231m_1493135756068247701gmail-written_by1" style="color:rgb(163,32,32);font-family:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-size:12px;outline:0px;box-sizing:border-box;text-decoration:none;border:0px;margin:0px;padding:0px;font-weight:700;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:20px" target="_blank">Amitabh Sinha</a><span style="font-family:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-variant-ligatures:inherit;font-variant-caps:inherit;font-weight:inherit;color:rgb(72,72,72);font-size:12px"> | New Delhi | </span><span style="font-family:inherit;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;color:rgb(72,72,72);font-size:12px;outline:0px;box-sizing:border-box;border:0px;margin:0px;padding:0px;font-stretch:inherit;line-height:16px">Published:February 18, 2017 4:15 am</span></h2></div></div><div class="m_-3003988973564561138gmail-m_3386161304311350867m_-618649627987590231m_1493135756068247701gmail-row" style="outline:0px;box-sizing:border-box;border:0px;margin:0px auto;padding:0px;font-variant-numeric:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:medium;line-height:inherit;font-family:roboto,sans-serif;max-width:990px;width:990px;clear:both;overflow:hidden;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><div class="m_-3003988973564561138gmail-m_3386161304311350867m_-618649627987590231m_1493135756068247701gmail-leftpanel" style="outline:0px;box-sizing:border-box;border:0px;margin:0px;padding:0px 0px 0px 10px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-family:inherit;float:left;overflow:hidden;width:650px"><div class="m_-3003988973564561138gmail-m_3386161304311350867m_-618649627987590231m_1493135756068247701gmail-story-details" style="outline:0px;box-sizing:border-box;border:0px;margin:0px;padding:0px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-family:inherit;clear:both;overflow:hidden"><div class="m_-3003988973564561138gmail-m_3386161304311350867m_-618649627987590231m_1493135756068247701gmail-main-story" style="outline:0px;box-sizing:border-box;border:0px;margin:0px 0px 15px;padding:0px 0px 10px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-family:inherit;overflow:hidden;width:640px"><div class="m_-3003988973564561138gmail-m_3386161304311350867m_-618649627987590231m_1493135756068247701gmail-articles" style="outline:0px;box-sizing:border-box;border:0px;margin:0px;padding:0px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-family:inherit;clear:both;overflow:hidden;width:640px"><div class="m_-3003988973564561138gmail-m_3386161304311350867m_-618649627987590231m_1493135756068247701gmail-full-details" style="outline:0px;box-sizing:border-box;border:0px;margin:0px;padding:0px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-family:"droid serif",serif;width:640px"><span style="outline:0px;box-sizing:border-box;border:0px;margin:0px;padding:0px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-family:inherit"></span><span class="m_-3003988973564561138gmail-m_3386161304311350867m_-618649627987590231m_1493135756068247701gmail-custom-caption" style="outline:0px;box-sizing:border-box;border-width:0px 0px 1px;border-top-style:initial;border-right-style:initial;border-bottom-style:solid;border-left-style:initial;border-top-color:initial;border-right-color:initial;border-bottom-color:rgb(219,219,219);border-left-color:initial;margin:0px 0px 20px;padding:0px 0px 5px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:14px;line-height:19px;font-family:roboto,sans-serif;color:rgb(116,116,116);display:block;overflow:hidden"><img class="m_-3003988973564561138gmail-m_3386161304311350867m_-618649627987590231m_1493135756068247701gmail-wp-image-4530849 m_-3003988973564561138gmail-m_3386161304311350867m_-618649627987590231m_1493135756068247701gmail-size-full" src="http://images.indianexpress.com/2017/02/anil-madhav-dhave-759.jpg" alt="air pollution, india air pollution, delhi air pollution, environment minister, Anil Madhav Dave, india news, indian express news, latest news" style="outline:0px;box-sizing:border-box;border:0px;margin:0px auto;padding:0px 0px 5px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-family:inherit;height:auto;width:640px;float:none;display:block">Dave said he was happy that air pollution in India was getting attention but it was “difficult to say whether a million people have died or half-a-million people have died”</span><p style="outline:0px;box-sizing:border-box;border:0px;margin:0px;padding:0px 0px 20px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:16px;line-height:28px;color:rgb(62,62,62)">EVEN AS he acknowledged that the health impacts of air pollution were “real” and “dangerous”, Environment Minister Anil Madhav Dave on Friday contested some of the numbers presented in a new global report, which has identified India as the worst affected country and attributed more than a million deaths in the country in 2015 to air pollution. Dave said he was happy that air pollution in India was getting attention but it was “difficult to say whether a million people have died or half-a-million people have died”. He said he would rather believe research conducted by Indian institutions to establish numbers like these.</p><p style="outline:0px;box-sizing:border-box;border:0px;margin:0px;padding:0px 0px 20px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:16px;line-height:28px;color:rgb(62,62,62)">“The government is very aware of the problem of air pollution and we are already taking a number of steps to deal with it. There is no doubt that air pollution is a big concern, not just in Delhi but also in many other cities of the country… But I am not sure about these numbers that come out in these international reports. We have our own institutions working on air pollution and I would like to trust them more,” Dave told The Indian Express.</p><div id="m_-3003988973564561138gmail-m_3386161304311350867m_-618649627987590231m_1493135756068247701gmail-jwplayer_cCGEijHc_xe0BVfqu_div" class="m_-3003988973564561138gmail-m_3386161304311350867m_-618649627987590231m_1493135756068247701gmail-jwplayer m_-3003988973564561138gmail-m_3386161304311350867m_-618649627987590231m_1493135756068247701gmail-jw-reset m_-3003988973564561138gmail-m_3386161304311350867m_-618649627987590231m_1493135756068247701gmail-jw-state-idle m_-3003988973564561138gmail-m_3386161304311350867m_-618649627987590231m_1493135756068247701gmail-jw-skin-seven m_-3003988973564561138gmail-m_3386161304311350867m_-618649627987590231m_1493135756068247701gmail-jw-stretch-uniform m_-3003988973564561138gmail-m_3386161304311350867m_-618649627987590231m_1493135756068247701gmail-jw-flag-aspect-mode m_-3003988973564561138gmail-m_3386161304311350867m_-618649627987590231m_1493135756068247701gmail-jw-flag-user-inactive m_-3003988973564561138gmail-m_3386161304311350867m_-618649627987590231m_1493135756068247701gmail-jw-breakpoint-4" style="outline:0px;box-sizing:border-box;border:0px;margin:0px 0px 15px;padding:0px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:16px;line-height:1em;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:inherit;float:none;list-style:none;vertical-align:baseline;direction:ltr;background-color:rgb(0,0,0);width:640px;min-height:0px;overflow:hidden;height:260px"><div class="m_-3003988973564561138gmail-m_3386161304311350867m_-618649627987590231m_1493135756068247701gmail-jw-title m_-3003988973564561138gmail-m_3386161304311350867m_-618649627987590231m_1493135756068247701gmail-jw-reset" style="outline:0px;box-sizing:inherit;border:0px;margin:0px;padding:0px 112px 0px 0px;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:0.875em;line-height:1em;color:inherit;float:none;list-style:none;vertical-align:baseline;direction:ltr;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial;background-color:initial;width:640px;height:8em"><div class="m_-3003988973564561138gmail-m_3386161304311350867m_-618649627987590231m_1493135756068247701gmail-jw-title-primary m_-3003988973564561138gmail-m_3386161304311350867m_-618649627987590231m_1493135756068247701gmail-jw-reset" style="outline:0px;box-sizing:inherit;border:0px;margin:0px;padding:0.75em 1.5em;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:700;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:1em;line-height:1em;color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;list-style:none;vertical-align:baseline;direction:ltr;background-color:transparent;min-height:2.5em;width:528px;white-space:nowrap;text-overflow:ellipsis;overflow:hidden">Here's How The Supreme Court Describe Delhi's Air Pollution</div><div class="m_-3003988973564561138gmail-m_3386161304311350867m_-618649627987590231m_1493135756068247701gmail-jw-title-secondary m_-3003988973564561138gmail-m_3386161304311350867m_-618649627987590231m_1493135756068247701gmail-jw-reset" style="outline:0px;box-sizing:inherit;border:0px;padding:0.75em 1.5em;font-style:inherit;font-variant:inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:1em;line-height:1em;color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;list-style:none;vertical-align:baseline;direction:ltr;background-color:transparent;min-height:2.5em;width:528px;white-space:nowrap;text-overflow:ellipsis;overflow:hidden"></div></div><div class="m_-3003988973564561138gmail-m_3386161304311350867m_-618649627987590231m_1493135756068247701gmail-jw-overlays m_-3003988973564561138gmail-m_3386161304311350867m_-618649627987590231m_149313575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sanders@ilstu.edu" style="font-size:12.8px" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a><span style="font-size:12.8px">></span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">        <</span><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="font-size:12.8px" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.o<wbr>rg</a><span style="font-size:12.8px">></span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">Subject: Re: [Stoves] LPG India update and comments--- Fwd: [stove and</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">        climate] Timely op-ed</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">Message-ID: <</span><a href="mailto:d88ba20c-06cf-7958-6ed9-441bda32259c@ilstu.edu" style="font-size:12.8px" target="_blank">d88ba20c-06cf-7958-6ed9-441bd<wbr>a32259c@ilstu.edu</a><span style="font-size:12.8px">></span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">Kirk and Crispin,</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">Kirk might want to reply to your comment about the killing impact of air </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">pollution.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">I note that "ari pollution kills...."   is not specific to   "air </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">pollution from cookstoves kills..."     Article says the indoor </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">pollution causes about half of the impact.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">To me, seeing this as an "op-ed" comment in a leading newspaper shows </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">that the pro-LPG people are good at using the media.   I need to learn </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">from them, and utilize the forces of the media to show realistic</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">alternatives to billion dollar subsidies.  That will make the news.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">Paul</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">Email:  </span><a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" style="font-size:12.8px" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">Skype:   paultlud    Phone: <a href="tel:(309)%20452-7072" value="+13094527072" target="_blank">+1-309-452-7072</a></span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">Website:  </span><a href="http://www.drtlud.com/" rel="noreferrer" style="font-size:12.8px" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a><br style="font-size:12.8px"><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">On 2/17/2017 10:46 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">></span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">> Dear Paul</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">></span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">> Here is the first line of the article:</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">></span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">> ?Air pollution kills more Indians than any other risk factor with </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">estimates ranging from 15 to 20 lakh premature deaths annually.?</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">></span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">> So right from the start there is misrepresentation of what is </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">happening. Air pollution kills = air pollution contributes to </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">premature deaths.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">></span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">> Could you think of a sneakier way to induce the public to think that a </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">life shortened, a ?premature death? is a death directly caused by air </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">pollution?</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">></span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">> Kirk wrote this? Come on Kirk, surely this is beneath you!</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">></span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">> Crispin</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">></span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">> Dear Stovers,</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">></span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">> I received the message below because I am subscribed to the Google</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">> Groups "</span><a href="mailto:stove@lists.berkeley.edu" style="font-size:12.8px" target="_blank">stove@lists.berkeley.edu</a><span style="font-size:12.8px">" <mailto:</span><a href="mailto:stove@lists.berkeley.edu" style="font-size:12.8px" target="_blank">stove@lists.berkeley.e<wbr>du</a><span style="font-size:12.8px">></span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">> group.  I thank Kirk Smith for providing this.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">></span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">> A few key points:</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">> 1.  India on track for 50 million LPG stoves for BOP (base of pyramid) </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">households by 2019.    (Previously reported cost to be US$1 billion.)</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">></span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">> 2. </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">Discussions are on to double the target for early next decade. </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">This would mean a remarkable enhancement of clean kitchens for </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">hundreds of millions of people.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">></span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">> That would probably be another billion dollars of government subsidy. </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">That would be a total of 100 Million LPG stoves for the BOP </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">population, which the article notes to be about 200 million households </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">burning solid fuels.   Therefore, with full success the LPG efforts </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">could accomplish half of the need.   What about the other half?   (My </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">answer is TLUD woodgas stoves (gas burners that make there gases from </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">dry biomass, analogous to biogas stoves with gas from wet biomass).)</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">></span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">> 3.  From "chit chat" messages from India, I have heard</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">> A.  of LPG stoves not being used because of distance to get a refill </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">of the tank (and of course the gas is not free).</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">></span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">> B.  people with the subsidized tank-refills selling them for a profit </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">to restaurants that would pay substantially more to refill their tanks </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">at the commercial level.   (and possible kick-backs to the people who </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">are hired to prevent such dealings.)  That is only hearsay from a </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">couple of sources, so do not quote it as proven.   Illegal actions are </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">difficult to document, for obvious reasons.).</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">></span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">> 4.  I do not know how much LPG India has and can continually produce </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">for how many years.   Any data would be apprreciated.  Might be </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">abundant, and might actually help the most accessable half of India's</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">> BOP households.  But LPG is a limited fossil-fuel resource that does </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">contribute to atmospheric CO2 increase.   In contrast the TLUD woodgas </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">stoves (gas burners, not stick burners) use renewable fuels and can</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">> even become carbon-negative when charcoal is collected and buried as </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">biochar.   And at a fraction of the billions of dollars that are going </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">to the LPG industry.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">></span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">> REQUEST:  Can anyone help get this message to any decision makers in </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">India?   I would like to have a fair hearing about this (about the </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">TLUD woodgas stoves, not about the LPG aspects, for which the LPG</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">> lobby already has its support lined up.)</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">></span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">> Paul </span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">>  </span></div><div><div class="m_-3003988973564561138gmail-m_4910336963724302549gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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