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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear Adam, Tami,<br>
<br>
<i><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000; font-size:10pt;">"What
I learned from Jim Jetter is that the process for discussing
the standards is open, transparent, and is intense this year:
a weekly conference call, and new members are invited to join
and bring their perspectives to the table. </span></i><span
style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000; font-size:10pt;"><i>...there
is a way to do so, and Jim encourages people to.</i><i>"<br>
"</i></span><i>You can have your voice heard in this endeavor
by contacting your national standards body and getting appointed
to the technical committee and working group that you are
interested in.</i><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000;
font-size:10pt;"><i>"</i><br>
<br>
I wasn't able to join the TC 285 working groups.<br>
I just asked Sally Seitz: France is not on the list of
countries, so I cannot join.<br>
There are only 29 participating countries, 14 observing
countries.<br>
The </span><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000;
font-size:10pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000;
font-size:10pt;">TC 285 is great, but it should not be the</span>
only place for discussion on the protocols.<br>
Tami, it is fantastic if you are able to share even a small
summary of the discussions on this List. That would help a lot.<br>
<br>
<br>
</span>Dear Adam,<br>
<br>
Thanks for your reaction, it is great that you and Ron shared what
you heard at ETHOS, it allows to continue the discussion.<br>
<br>
<span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000; font-size:10pt;"><i>"What
I learned was that the WBT was designed primarily as a way to
measure the impact of small design changes upon stove
performance"</i><br>
The WBT 3.0 protocol says: "The test is not intended to replace
other forms of stove assessment; however, it is designed as a
simple method with which stoves made in different places and for
different cooking applications can be compared through a
standardized and replicable test.”<br>
Indeed, in the document, it is reminded several times that the
WBT does not replace a field test, where one might get different
results. But there is already this idea of comparing apples and
oranges.</span><br>
<span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000; font-size:10pt;">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
<br>
The WBT has been commonly and globally used to rate, certify and
select </span><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000;
font-size:10pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000;
font-size:10pt;"> stoves </span>for dissemination. Even to
get carbon credits. The organizations which promoted the WBT and
taught it to others, knew, did it, kept doing it and were very
happy with that state of affairs. Did they know all along that
the WBT was only good for little tweaks? If then, why did they
keep recommending the WBT for large stove dissemination
programmes?<br>
And all of a sudden, what we hear is: "OK, but wait, in fact the
WBT is good to .... design stoves!"<br>
<br>
The Aprovecho Research Center and the PCIA wrote: "The research
staff at Aprovecho decided that it would be valuable to test a
variety of cooking stoves from around the world. <b>The
intention was to provide all stakeholders with information
about how to make the best stove choice.</b>"<br>
Water Boiling Tests were performed.<br>
I don't think any more needs to be said.<br>
This was in "Test results of cook stove performance", a 128-page
paper, published in January 2012.<br>
Link on the PCIA website here: <a
href="https://www.pciaonline.org/resources/test-results-cook-stove-performance">https://www.pciaonline.org/resources/test-results-cook-stove-performance</a><br>
<br>
Many organizations around the world performed WBTs or had WBTs
performed in order to inform decision-making. Project leaders
and businessmen want to sell stoves, period. Tell me what stove
is good and we'll distribute it.<br>
<br>
In the GACC catalog, which is a, sic, "global guide to clean
cooking solutions", 418 tests out of 647 are Water Boiling
tests.<br>
<a href="http://catalog.cleancookstoves.org/test-results">http://catalog.cleancookstoves.org/test-results</a><br>
<br>
How many stoves were "ISO" certified clean and improved by the
Aprovecho Research Center, with WBTs?<br>
You can bet than once an organization gets such certificate,
stove development and tweaks are over, wide production and
distribution starts.<br>
<br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000;
font-size:10pt;"><i><span style="font-family:Verdana;
color:#000; font-size:10pt;"><span style="">"its ideal use
(to compare the impact of iterative design change on stove
performance)"</span></span></i><br>
Is the WBT even of any use for that? The questions asked by the
studies remain unanswered by the WBT proponents.<br>
They have the burden of proof to show us how the WBT is helpful
for stove development.<br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000;
font-size:10pt;"><i><span style="font-family:Verdana;
color:#000; font-size:10pt;"><span style="">"throwing the
baby out with the bathwater"</span></span></i><br>
Unless there's no baby in the bathwater.<br>
<br>
"</span><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000;
font-size:10pt;"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000;
font-size:10pt;"><span style="">the methodology that many in
the sector have developed"<br>
</span></span>This again, is sunk cost. The number of people
having worked on the WBT is irrelevant. Only the usefulness of
the protocol, the tool, or its unusefulness, is relevant. If the
hammer cannot hammer, it's no use to anyone. <br>
Who are these many people who worked on improving the WBT by the
way? Can they speak on this List?<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Xavier<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</span>On 2/20/17 23:04, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:adam@instove.org">adam@instove.org</a> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:20170220150423.3e95f4d53559e52e74eb9561dd74805b.ff5a72be7a.wbe@email05.godaddy.com"
type="cite"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000;
font-size:10pt;">
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: verdana, geneva;
font-size: 10pt;">Hello All, </div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: verdana, geneva;
font-size: 10pt;"><br>
</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: verdana, geneva;
font-size: 10pt;">The week after ETHOS, I had the chance to
attend the Stove Upgrade Seminar at Aprovecho. Getting to
spend a great deal of time personally with many stovers whom I
respect who have been doing the work longer than I’ve been
alive, was humbling and insightful. </div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: verdana, geneva;
font-size: 10pt;"><br style="">
</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: verdana, geneva;
font-size: 10pt;">I worked firsthand alongside them using the
WBT, and had a chance to ask what must have been the most
pedestrian questions: perlocutionary criticisms about
replicability of the user’s input (are 3 or 7 test cycles
sufficient?), about how to measure the use of accelerants to
start fire (“is fire-starting fluid's fuel-value measured?”),
how air quality might affect the test (“how does the
equipment/method account for ambient PM?”), and about the
differences between the WBT and the other tests for measuring
stove performance. </div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: verdana, geneva;
font-size: 10pt;"><br style="">
</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: verdana, geneva;
font-size: 10pt;">What I learned was that the WBT was designed
primarily as a way to measure the impact of small design
changes upon stove performance: a tweak here, a change there…
i.e. "how does the new stove with change compare to the old
stove without it?" My scientific formation is in
biology—neither engineering, nor design—so I can’t speak to
the more technical questions about the accuracy of the
approach, the “denominator equation," the implications of
char-creation on efficiency, or the statistical methods that
would create stronger confidence in the outcomes of a test
like this. </div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: verdana, geneva;
font-size: 10pt;"><br style="">
</div>
<div><font style="" face="verdana, geneva" size="2">What I can
say is that from my perspective, </font><i style="color:
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: verdana, geneva; font-size:
10pt;">comparing how two mostly similar stoves, in similar
conditions, and with the same user, boil the same amount of
water seems pretty sound as a basis for making certain
decisions, </i><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
font-family: verdana, geneva; font-size: 10pt;">particularly
with repetitions that reduce the uncertainty/variability</span><font
style="" face="verdana, geneva" size="2">. I also understand
the logic that local variables (different cooks, fuel, pots,
foods cooked, etc.) in the CCT and KPT make results from
these tests not comparable. So the WBT limits variables, and
as a front-end test before distribution, allows for
international comparison of stoves. It also levels the
playing field somewhat, since it's far cheaper (particularly
for early-stage folks) to afford a lab test than a field
one. </font></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: verdana, geneva;
font-size: 10pt;"><br style="">
</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: verdana, geneva;
font-size: 10pt;">I don’t think that performance against the
WBT (as the farthest along of several ISO standards that are
in the works) will determine how the stove may be adopted, nor
how much fuel it will save, but that was not the intention
behind the WBT. </div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: verdana, geneva;
font-size: 10pt;"><br style="">
</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: verdana, geneva;
font-size: 10pt;">What I learned from Dean and Miguel at Apro
is that really, the Controlled Cooking Test and the Kitchen
Performance Test are the real tests of impact, localized to a
given context. However, decisions right now about stove
inclusion in programs (most notably the UNHCR, GIZ, GACC and
others) are being made on the basis of the WBT. While this is
not ideal in terms of matching a stove with optimal impact to
a given fuel, food, behavior or cultural context, it does
ensure that some valid lab testing has been done at all. I
recently read a publication authored by the leadership of a
nonprofit (that dabbles in cookstoves) with an annual budget
in the millions claiming that the <b style=""><u style="">20%
to 30%</u></b> thermal efficiency typical of their <b
style="">built-in-place brick and mortar</b> rocket stoves
reduces fuel demand by up to 70% compared to a three-stone
fire. This kind of oversimplification is certainly problematic
when scientific looking terms and figures mask a lack of
accountability. There is a great deal of ignorance out there,
mine commingled with it…but I think that the WBT, for what it
does, is not worth abandoning. I<span style="">t may be being
applied outside of its ideal use (to compare the impact of
iterative design change on stove performance), but for the
moment, it seems to me that throwing the baby out with the
bathwater—ditching the methodology that many in the sector
have developed and come to tentative agreements on the use
of—would be a mistake. </span></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: verdana, geneva;
font-size: 10pt;"><br style="">
</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: verdana, geneva;
font-size: 10pt;">What I learned from Jim Jetter is that the
process for discussing the standards is open, transparent, and
is intense this year: a weekly conference call, and new
members are invited to join and bring their perspectives to
the table. That seems pretty transparent, and pretty
admirable, given how many stakeholders have diverse interests
in the outcome of the discussion, and it’s quite a labor to
take on. But for anyone who wants a say in the process, and
who has something to contribute (I do not count myself among
the latter category)...there is a way to do so, and Jim
encourages people to.</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: verdana, geneva;
font-size: 10pt;"><br style="">
</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: verdana, geneva;
font-size: 10pt;">I think the development of the right test
for the right approach is as ongoing as stove design itself,
and as Tami has pointed out, it must be done in steps, and
with the courage to bring into the discussion, those people
with strong opinions and valid criticisms. </div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: verdana, geneva;
font-size: 10pt;"><br style="">
</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: verdana, geneva;
font-size: 10pt;">My thanks to all who have helped me
understand the paradigm a little better, and to know that
we’re not at the end of a process. The discussion does remind
me of an XKCD cartoon (below)</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: verdana, geneva;
font-size: 10pt;"><br>
</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: verdana, geneva;
font-size: 10pt;"><img moz-do-not-send="true"
src="webkit-fake-url://7f86a021-0002-4adb-96ff-0f1ec03413df/image.tiff"
style=""></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: verdana, geneva;
font-size: 10pt;"><img moz-do-not-send="true" style=""></div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: verdana, geneva;
font-size: 10pt;"><br style="">
</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: verdana, geneva;
font-size: 10pt;">Adam Creighton</div>
<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: verdana, geneva;
font-size: 10pt;"><br>
</div>
<blockquote id="replyBlockquote" webmail="1" style="color:
black; font-family: verdana; font-size: 10pt;
border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid;
border-left-color: blue; margin-left: 8px; padding-left: 8px;">
<div id="wmQuoteWrapper">
-------- Original Message --------<br>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Advocacy action: ask the GACC to stop
promoting<br>
the WBT<br>
From: "Philip Lloyd" <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:plloyd@mweb.co.za">plloyd@mweb.co.za</a>><br>
Date: Mon, February 20, 2017 12:09 pm<br>
To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'"<br>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
<br>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The
paywall behind which this paper sits is a nuisance,
but I commend <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.politesi.polimi.it/bitstream/10589/121554/3/2016_04_Lombardi.pdf">https://www.politesi.polimi.it/bitstream/10589/121554/3/2016_04_Lombardi.pdf</a></span>
<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">as
a useful substitute<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Prof
Philip Lloyd<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Energy
Institute, CPUT<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">SARETEC,
Sachs Circle<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Bellville<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Tel
021 959 4323<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Cell
083 441 5247<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">PA
Nadia 021 959 4330<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US"> Stoves [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Crispin Pemberton-Pigott<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 20, 2017 6:02 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Francesco Lombardi<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] Advocacy action: ask
the GACC to stop promoting the WBT<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Dear
Francesco <o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Congratulations
on this testing opus. This must have taken your
group a long time to produce. Most impressive. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
suggest that perhaps this can serve as an evaluation
reference when considering the concepts and
calculations that underlie any proposed methods. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">There
is another work 'in the works' which is that Cecil
Cook will shortly be travelling to Sudan to work on
his social anthropology methodology that underlies
the CSI testing sequences. He didn't say anything to
the Stoves group but that is the plan. Once
documented as a social science protocol it will help
define the key performance indicators for product
evaluation. It is an integral part of the CSI
protocol - the development of the contextual test
that will be conducted. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">An
example of this is the duties that will be measured
in the Kyrgyzstan stove pilot. During discussions
this week we agreed to include water warming on the
stoves using three specific containers: a kettle
containing 3 litres, a tall thin container of
ablution water, 1.5 litres, and a bucket with 20
litres of water. These will be monitored parallel to
the space heating and cooking functions. The reason
for inclusions is that it is a desired and expected
stove function, and because if the stove performs
poorly, it will not find traction in the general
community. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">We
conducted some site visits outside the city of Osh
on the weekend gathering feedback and fuel
consumption numbers. The test sequence, once
agreed, will be communicated to the BST lab in
Beijing where they will conduct the tests. This is
an example of how a standard laboratory setup in a
remote location can be used to evaluate a stove
using site-specific performance targets. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Once
codified Cecil's work will add to the work of
Francesco and other creating a new foundation for
the stove sector. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Regards <o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Crispin
<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></div>
<div>
<div id="divtagdefaultwrapper">
<div id="divtagdefaultwrapper">
<div><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Dear
all,<br>
<br>
I am pleased to inform you that we just
published a new article that you may find
extremely relevant to this discussion. The title
is: "Laboratory protocols for testing of
Improved Cooking Stoves (ICSs): A review of
state-of-the-art and further developments". This
is the link for the downlkoad: <a
moz-do-not-send="true" target="_blank"
href="http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S096195341730065X"
id="LPlnk675897">http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S096195341730065X</a><br>
<br>
The paper, published in Biomass and Bioenergy,
performs an analysis of strengths and weaknesses
for each protocol based on defined
indicators. Real-life relevance, repeatability
and data evaluation are set as indicators for
comparison. Based on the analysis, aternative
solutions for design rating and statistical
analysis are proposed and moreover we provide an
outlook for the definition of a novel standard.<br>
<br>
It is very important that the criticalities here
identified are properly discussed and solved
before the publication of any novel
protocol/standard. Accordingly, we hope that you
can contribute to share the results of this
study as much as possible within the stove
community.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Francesco Lombardi<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div id="Signature">
<div id="divtagdefaultwrapper">
<div name="divtagdefaultwrapper">
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><i><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Francesco
Lombardi, Eng.<br>
Researcher at Department of Energy<br>
UNESCO Chair in Energy for Sustainable
Development <br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
target="_blank"
href="http://www.unescochair-e4sd.polimi.it">www.unescochair-e4sd.polimi.it</a><br>
Politecnico di Milano, via Lambruschini,
4 – 20156 – Milano<br>
Mobile: +39 338 2749066<br>
Office: +39 02 2399 3866</span></i><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;text-align:center"
align="center"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">
<hr align="center" size="2" width="98%"></span></div>
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg">
<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Da:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">
<a moz-do-not-send="true" target="_blank"
href="mailto:pienergy2008@gmail.com">pienergy2008@gmail.com</a>
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:pienergy2008@gmail.com">pienergy2008@gmail.com</a>>
per conto di Traveller <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" target="_blank"
href="mailto:miata98@gmail.com">miata98@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Inviato:</b> giovedì 16 febbraio 2017
10.26<br>
<b>A:</b> Cecil Cook<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves; Crispin Pembert-Pigott; Francesco
Lombardi; Fabio Riva; Samer Abdelnour;
Xavier Brandao; Harold Annegarn; Zhou
Yuguang; Frank Shields<br>
<b>Oggetto:</b> Re: [Stoves] Advocacy
action: ask the GACC to stop promoting the
WBT</span><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">
<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">[First
a nod of gratitude to Frank - setting
tasks is a beginning of "service
standard". I don't believe a uniform
service standard be pre-set or that such a
standard can remain valid in practice.
Foods change. Operating practices change.
Setting fuel quality in the name of a wood
is beyond ludicrous. The entire history of
"stove catalog" is dubious, pardon me if I
am the first one to say so. Emission tests
for efficiency or emission rates have no
consistency in terms of method, duration,
input and output data. Just go read Kirk
Smith's chapter on health in Global Energy
Assessment circa 2012/3. Setting targets
and Tiers in advance is putting a cart's
front to the horse's head. The rot in wide
and deep, much more than WBT.] <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><br>
Now Cecil:<br>
<br>
As the usual naysayer - not to say a
vicious dog who lunges most at friends
and ignores foes - let me doubt you: <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">"</span><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
am pretty certain I can design a
survey methodology that will predict
demand for competing stoves with out
concerning myself with efficiency and
emission performance. And that my
socio-cultural and user satisfaction
tests of stove performance will
predict customer response to competing
improved stoves better than testing
protocols which give efficiency and
emission performance more weight than
culture centered parameters of stove
performance. Emission and efficiency
performance do not "trump" user
friendly operational variables and
culturally mandated "negotiable" stove
performance variables?</span><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><br>
The problem is one of trust. <br>
<br>
Not my trust in your ability to design
such a survey methodology but whether
GACC - the leader of us all, the
champion of women and the planet (or UNF
and EPA, WHO and our own Narendrabhai's
oil companies) - will get 100 such
surveys done, in 20 countries, in a
year, after spending millions on
Dahlberg, Accenture, and usual suspects.
(ESMAP might, and should. WHO should, if
it mounts a serious effort on air,
water, and waste management for public
health. What it has done on Household
Fuels is enough of a shame to rank in
the annals of UN misdeeds.)<br>
<br>
And even ESMAP may have doubts about
whether the cooks will talk or whether
national governments - the finance
ministers - will listen. "Stovers" lost
credibility a long time ago and recent
attacks from GACC - pressing for
exclusive, permanent transition to clean
fuels and Tier 4 stoves, no "stacking" -
or this curious, dubious adherence to
WBTs have made it worse. <br>
<br>
I wonder how much trust and credibility
have been eroded just in the past year.
No problem. A new learning has started,
as the GACC CEO impressed upon the
audience at George Washington University
last month. She seems to be trying hard.
It's time to take stock and get our
heads out of the fireboxes and
peer-reviewed papers, write off DfID's
grandiose dreams for its grants to Teri
or UN Foundation, get serious rather
than protect reputations and careers. <br>
<br>
Why should a busy woman bother to talk
to an ethnographer or answer your survey
questions? Haven't hoards of
"stakeholders" been bored with meals at
imperial hotels and video conferences
about climate and sexual violence?
Haven't tens of millions of girls known
such violence first hand, and are they
going to be persuaded that LPG stoves or
Tier 4 will protect their girls from
sexual violence in 2030? Haven't a
billion "improved woodstoves" been
trashed in the dustbin of history?
Haven't MIT/Harvard (e)cons made a fool
of us all? Hasn't India's search for
Advanced Biomass Stoves gone "Up in
Smoke"? Aren't Haitian, Nigerian,
Kenyan, Ghanaian, Guatemalan, Congolese,
Asian women and children dying
prematurely at the rate of one a minute?
<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">I
urge everybody to drop the pretense of
science and models and stand
intellectually naked in fresh air at
the ocean of humanity. "We" know
zilch. Recite - "What do I know? How
do I know? What is the service
standard? How are 50 billion meals,
snacks, and beverages made and served
every day, and how will the 2 trillion
such servings of 2020 look different
from the 1 trillion such of 1960?<br>
<br>
Do we know what questions to ask? Some
the respondents too may not have
thought of. We may need to observe the
rhythms of cooking and foods, and the
total time, labor, and money budgets
in the cook's family over a
generation. Because everything about
cooking and eating has changed and
keeps changing except stovers. <br>
<br>
Cooking is a language. Food is an
identity. Biomass cost, quality, and
availability is a complex ecosystem of
humanity, botany, agronomics,
forestry, climate, machinery. <br>
<br>
I will volunteer 1,000 hours for
anybody who simplifies this mess of
so-called science and comes up with
good definitions, performance metrics,
and testing methods for objective and
subjective criteria. <br>
<br>
Whose meals are being cooked, I wish I
knew. WHO, EPA, and NIH, to count a
few. <br>
<br>
I agree with Xavier -- first halt the
WBT use by GACC. There is zero legal
basis for WBT in reference to
cookstoves worldwide. I doubt it is a
cornerstone for solid fuel cookstoves
in the US, but will be happy to be
corrected. EPA has no competence to
set metrics and testing protocols for
residential cookstoves in the US, just
NSPS for woodstoves for residential
heating, even which it cannot
implement after 30 years. We should
stir the pot at WHO; anybody game?<br>
<br>
N<br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;"><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:black"><br>
--------- </span><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;"><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif";color:black">(India
+91) 909 995 2080<br>
<i> </i></span><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="font-size:12pt;"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">On
Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 3:14 AM, <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:cec1863@gmail.com"
target="_blank">cec1863@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">Dear fellow
pyromaniacs,<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">It looks like scales
are falling from the eyes of stove
testers and learning is beginning to
take place on the stove list. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">Let our consulting
continue from a new posture of
learning until we get to what CPP
called for long ago: a suite of
stove testing metrics which are
selected from a tool box to discover
the most culturally appropriate
metrics and methods for testing
stove performance in situ.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">Come to think of
it....why not ask ethnographers to
talk to representative samples of
targeted stove users in a region,
city or country for long enough to
identify the "natural" groups of
stove users....and then ask
representatives of these different
groups to identify their stove
performance preferences which
together describe their collective
idea of an ideal household cooking
stove or an ideal work/ food
processing/party stove or an
agricultural or rural stove or an
ideal multi-use stove.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">The fuel use
characteristics will be one the main
dimensions of assessment. How much
fuel to perform known tasks??<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">With these abstract
ideal characterizations in hand and
mind, what can the stove designers
and fabricators come up with?? We
then assess the performance of
candidate stoves against those
functions which stove users/buyers/<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">makers/sellers/funders
agree are ideal! The user's
preferences will not be exact but it
will predict stove purchase and use
behavior!<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">All the efficiency and
emission concerns which carry the
bureaucratic interests of WB,
USAID, WHO, EPA, and GACC -
targeting macro climate, human
health, and environmental impacts
(saving tree cover) - are added into
the evaluation matrix as nice to
have beneficial impacts .....but I
can assure you the end users of cook
stoves will put emissions and
efficiency toward the bottom of
their list of highly desired
dimensions of stove performance. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">It will be the
economics of purchased fuels in
urban areas and the hard work of
gathering fuel wood in rural
communities for biomass stoves that
will strengthen demand for improved
biomass stoves that substantially
reduce fuel wood or charcoal
use.......but there are many other
far more important stove performance
variables that have more impact
upon costomer demand and use rates
than the emissions and efficiency
performance of competing stoves. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">I am pretty certain I
can design a survey methodology that
will predict demand for competing
stoves with out concerning myself
with efficiency and emission
performance. And that my
socio-cultural and user satisfaction
tests of stove performance will
predict customer response to
competing improved stoves better
than testing protocols which give
efficiency and emission performance
more weight than culture centered
parameters of stove performance.
Emission and efficiency performance
do not "trump" user friendly
operational variables and culturally
mandated "negotiable" stove
performance variables?<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">In search,<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">Cecil "the
anthropologist" Cook<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
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<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt
.75pt;font-size:initial;text-align:initial">
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<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:
</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Frank
Shields<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Sent:
</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Monday,
February 13, 2017 1:45 PM<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">To:
</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Discussion
of biomass cooking stoves<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Reply
To: </span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Discussion
of biomass cooking stoves<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Cc:
</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Francesco
Lombardi; Fabio Riva<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Subject:
</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Re:
[Stoves] Advocacy action:
ask the GACC to stop
promoting the WBT<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div
id="m_-5453071382229138889m_-6620732239972475305_originalContent">
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"
lang="EN-US">Dear Fabio and
Stovers <o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"
lang="EN-US">I have criticized the
WBT in the past but after looking
at the new directions that is
being taken the WBT looks better
and better. It does need some
changes. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"
lang="EN-US">The problems with the
WBT:<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"
lang="EN-US">1) The fuel needs be
characterized by its chemical and
physical properties - NOT as
identification as to Name of the
type of wood. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"
lang="EN-US">2) We need to remove
any calculations regarding to
moisture and attempt to normalize
the energy value back to dry
weight basis. Before that can be
done there need be proof that it
is a linear fit - very unlikely
with this type of system. We can
only report ‘with a moisture of
10% this happens” or "with a
moisture of 20% this happens”. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"
lang="EN-US">2b) There are many
energy waste like sides of the
combustion chamber, gaps too wide,
pot bottom placed to high or low
etc. These are considered the same
as moisture - something to be
optimized and understood. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"
lang="EN-US">3) It needs be
understood that the WBT is only an
outline for tests that need be
done. That is the Task here is
boiling water. Using this outline
we need to establish different
Tasks. Could be; Char making,
cooking beans, grill cooking,
heating a house, creating light -
all types of Tasks. For all we
need the same layout.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"
lang="EN-US">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"
lang="EN-US">Frank<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"
lang="EN-US"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"
lang="EN-US">"</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#1F3864"
lang="EN-US">Dear Xavier,</span><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"
lang="EN-US"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#1F3864"
lang="EN-US">Thank you very
much for having cited our
paper in the discussion.
Please, consider this
recommendation for the next
citations: we do not actually
critic the WBT per se, but the
way through which the
practitioners and the
literature perform the WBT and
report the results. Indeed, we
are perfectly aware that the
WBT has many drawbacks and
unresolved issues, but we are
still trying to support this
in a scientific way. </span><span
style="color:black"
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#1F3864"
lang="EN-US">With our article
“Fuzzy interval propagation of
uncertainties in experimental
analysis for improved and
traditional three–stone fire
cookstoves" we demonstrated a
different problem: so far, the
literature reports mainly data
coming from an average of few
replicates that can lead to
misinterpreted evaluations of
ICSs’ performance if the
uncertainties are not
considered. The final goal of
the article is therefore
making people aware of the
possible errors and
misinterpretations when they
do not perform accurate
statistical data processing.</span><span
style="color:black"
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#1F3864"
lang="EN-US">Therefore, the
sentence that you have
highlighted in the forwarded
email should not be
interpreted as “the WBT itself
has epistemic uncertainties
that may lead to incorrect
ICS’s performance evaluation”,
because it is not actually the
result of the work. Rather,
the main outcome and result is
this: </span><span
style="color:black"
lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#1F3864"
lang="EN-US">“IF you do not
consider the WBTs
uncertainties (viz. the
uncertainties related to lab
replicates performed with the
WBT) when you report and
analyse data </span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F3864"
lang="EN-US">à</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#1F3864"
lang="EN-US"> THEN you might
misinterpret the real ICSs’
performance”. So, we are not
criticizing the “WBT
uncertainties” per se, because
it is normal to have
uncertainties when you perform
a lab measures (they are too
many in the WBT, true, and
they must be urgently limited!
but it is not the point of the
article).</span><span
style="color:black"
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#1F3864"
lang="EN-US">This conclusion
can be applied to all the
protocols that have intrinsic
uncertainties. The reason why
we have considered only the
WBT-based tests is because it
is the most adopted protocol
in the literature and there
are many data available. </span><span
style="color:black"
lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#1F3864"
lang="EN-US">I hope it could
be clearer now. <u>I would be
grateful if you could
forward this message also to
Ron and the bioenergy list</u>.</span><span
style="color:black"
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#1F3864"
lang="EN-US">Thanks again for
the passion and the effort you
put for the testing community.
</span><span
style="color:black"
lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#1F3864"
lang="EN-US">Best regards,</span><span
style="color:black"
lang="EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#1F3864"
lang="EN-US">Fabio"<br>
</span><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"
lang="EN-US"><br>
It is really great to have
some insight from them. As I
was replying to Fabio, I don't
know if it is at all possible
to "fix" the WBT. And doing
this fixing, if it is at all
possible, will take a lot of
time. Researchers and testers
are very busy with other
things, and funders/the
GACC/project implementers want
to act now.<br>
<br>
Let's be a bit realistic for
one second. If nothing is
done, testers will keep using
the WBT, and project
implementers being project
implementers, they WILL poorly
interpret the results. We all
know how it works in
international development
projects. Some projects are
planned very well and run very
smoothly, but let's admit that
more often than not, nothing
really goes according to the
plan. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div
id="m_-5453071382229138889m_-6620732239972475305_originalContent">
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:justify;background:white"><span
style="color:black"
lang="EN-US">Testers and
project leaders will
hastily test the stoves
with a limited number of
iterations because they
are already late on the
project planning, or they
have limited human
resources or funds, not
the right equipment, or
the testing consultant is
in the country for a short
amount of time. They will
think it is good enough.
They will take hasty
decisions, and start
projects based on very
thin evidence. This is
unfortunately how it
happens all the time. It's
like saying the the
project implementers: here
is a car but the brakes
are not working well,
don't drive too fast with
it. Misinterpretations and
misuse of the results will
be done, because the WBT
is so easy to misuse. A
very solid protocol is
what we need. We need a
great tool, a fool-proof
tool, a tool we can rely
on.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div
id="m_-5453071382229138889m_-6620732239972475305_originalContent">
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:justify;background:white"><span
style="color:black"
lang="EN-US">Another point
is that more than a few
people have been trying to
fix the WBT for long time,
maybe 10 years or more.
Maybe since it was
invented, in 1987? Can it
be fixed at all? Even
"improved", even with a
large number of test
iterations, can the WBT
give any satisfactory
results leading to good
decisions?<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div
id="m_-5453071382229138889m_-6620732239972475305_originalContent">
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:justify;background:white"><span
style="color:black"
lang="EN-US">But more
importantly, even with
statistical data
processing, 3 big issues
remain with the WBT. Can
they be solved at all?
Fabio Riva and Francesco
Lombardi admit these 3
issues still remain.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div
id="m_-5453071382229138889m_-6620732239972475305_originalContent">
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"
lang="EN-US">They are not
criticizing the WBT per
se, in their paper. But I,
and many others, are.
Based on their findings,
we are criticizing the
WBT, because the WBT
allows for easy
misinterpretation, the WBT
allows large mistakes to
be made. Because in
international development
projects, and especially
in stove projects, it is
so easy to make bad
decisions. <o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div
id="m_-5453071382229138889m_-6620732239972475305_originalContent">
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;text-align:justify;background:white"><span
style="color:black"
lang="EN-US">Often,
researchers and scientists
don't take position,
because it is, they think,
not their job. Then others
in the stove sector have
the responsibility to take
a position, and make a
choice. I believe their
researches allow us to
take that position, and to
ask for the promotion of
the WBT to be stopped.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div
id="m_-5453071382229138889m_-6620732239972475305_originalContent">
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"
lang="EN-US">The wisest
step, in my opinion,
remains to stop using this
protocol, until it is
fixed or we definitely
move to a better one.<br>
<br>
I remind you that you can
support the initiative
here: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:xvr.brandao@gmail.com"
target="_blank">xvr.brandao@gmail.com</a><br>
And see other protocols,
the HTP and CSI, here: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B5rmmRmIsdlnQlRQX3A1cXVOQ3M?usp=sharing"
target="_blank">https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B5rmmRmIsdlnQlRQX3A1cXVOQ3M?usp=sharing</a><br>
<br>
Looking forward to your
comments.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Xavier<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"
lang="EN-US">_______________________________________________<br>
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</blockquote>
</div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"
lang="EN-US">Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"
lang="EN-US">Frank<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"
lang="EN-US">Frank Shields<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"
lang="EN-US">Gabilan
Laboratory<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"
lang="EN-US">Keith Day
Company, Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"
lang="EN-US">1091 Madison Lane<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"
lang="EN-US">Salinas, CA
93907<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"
lang="EN-US"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%28831%29%20246-0417"
target="_blank">(831)
246-0417</a> cell<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"
lang="EN-US"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%28831%29%20771-0126"
target="_blank">(831)
771-0126</a> office<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
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style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"
lang="EN-US"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:fShields@keithdaycompany.com"
target="_blank">fShields@keithdaycompany.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
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style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"
lang="EN-US"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:franke@cruzio.com"
target="_blank">franke@cruzio.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></div>
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style="font-size:12pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"
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style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"
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<o:p></o:p></span></div>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
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for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a>
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