<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div>Ron: <br><br></div>Thank you, again. I suggest checking out the associated course - <a href="https://clas.uiowa.edu/international-studies/sites/clas.uiowa.edu.international-studies/files/Seminar%20Course%20--%20Womens%20Health%20%20The%20Environment%20%20--%20Syllabus.pdf">URP 3142 Women’s Health and the Environment: Going Up in Smoke.</a><br><br>A quick comment on your quote of Kirk Smith. <br><br></div>I disagree with Kirk Smith that "<span class="gmail-m_-8964470444103472570Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"></span>stovers should not use the word “subsidy”. I don't understand how he praises $5 billion/yr subsidy for LPG cooking in India and dismisses biomass stoves as not yet having been proved "truly health protective". If not yet subsidy, product development aimed at "subsidizable" solid fuel stoves should be financed, now that GACC has raised the awareness at the highest policy levels. <br><br></div><div>The question of subsidies is contextual - market size, relative costs, etc.<br><br> Kirk Smith's emphasis on "proof" is an excuse for pursuing epidemiological research that will inevitably be confounded by confounding factors.His GBD work <i>assumed</i> LPG and electric cooking is "truly health protective", simply by assigning zero PM2.5 emissions at the household burner. Now NIH and Gates - and GACC - are spending millions of $ to build the "evidence base" that LPG cooking enhanced health; I haven't seen any study of health impacts of transition to gas and electric cooking in the Western world, or for that matter Mumbai or Ahmedabad or my village.<br></div><br>If people think LPG is health protective, who needs epidemiologists with Randomized Controlled Studies in Malawi? Same with biomass alternatives; why bother complying with non-binding WHO PM2.5 hourly emission rate guidelines if you can convince the cook that the biomass alternative is useful, convenient, clean enough, and cheaper to boot? <br><br></div><div>But Kirk Smith's other point is noteworthy - "Should not equate increased efficiency with health benefits - in absence of proof." I have argued before that efficiency is an irrelevant metric for small-scale household cooking. (For heating and commercial cooking,it is.) <br></div><div><br></div><div>The trouble, I have said before, is with developers of new wood stoves and the metrics of fuel efficiency and now, PM2.5 emission rates a la WHO, and pursuit of aDALYs a la BAMG. We don'\t have a usable product that cooks desire. I have been looking to make an argument for stoves and fuels that can compete with LPG on a commercial basis in certain markets, and just don't see a case yet. (Except for product development and marketing costs; that is not consumer or intermediary subsidy.) <br><br>-------------<br></div><div>Now about Madhu Sarin, whom you heard. <br></div><div><br></div>Madhu Sarin's frustration was brought out in the story <a href="http://www.caravanmagazine.in/reportage/smoke-india-perfect-cookstove/3">Up in Smoke</a>, <br><br><div style="margin-left:40px">"The Nada chulha became one of the stoves <u>selected by the government</u>
for distribution, and Sarin was part of its early meetings. But the
flaws of the programme soon became apparent to her. ....<u>On paper, the success went beyond any bureaucrat’s dreams</u>: ..But a survey conducted by Sarin and some colleagues,.. found
that things were very different on the ground. ...Badly trained, reluctant stove-makers meant bad stoves. ...<u>In one village, a row of houses did burn down. “We
couldn’t talk about chulhas in that area for years,” said Sarin.</u>..There was also a more fundamental issue: <u>the programme’s goals were
out of sync with what women wanted. </u>While the focus was on making stoves
that consumed less wood, <u>women wanted ones that emitted less smoke, or
cooked faster..</u>.Despite these problems, the pilot project was scaled up into the
National Programme on Improved Chulhas, launched in 1985 by the prime
minister, Rajiv Gandhi, with “technical back up” units across the
country—mostly local engineering colleges—to help with stove design.
Subsidies were disbursed to potters and local stove manufacturers
through state governments..."<br><br></div>That encapsulates the disaster caused by experts, for experts. I suggest reading the two classics at the bottom of p.2 of the UIowa Seminar description (reproduced below).<br><br></div>Indian women have got used to LPG, and rural ones have begun to use it part-time. <br><br>Let's see if Indian bureaucrats and experts have miracle biomass stoves. <br><br></div><div>Clean Cooking Forum 2017 beckons. I count on bureaucrats to create another big splash. <br><br></div>Nikhil<br><br>---------------<br></div>Suggested reading:<br><div><div><span style="font-family:georgia,serif"><br>Kishore, V.V.N. and P.V. Ramana. 2001. Improved Cookstoves in Rural India: How Improved Are They? A critique of the perceived benefits from the National Programme on Improved Chulhas (NPIC). Energy 27:47-63.<br><br>Gill, Jas. 1987. Improved Cookstoves in Developing Countries: A Critique. Energy Policy 15(2):135-144.</span></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><font face="georgia, serif">------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>Nikhil Desai</font></div><div><font face="georgia, serif">(India +91) 909 995 2080<br><i>Skype: nikhildesai888</i><br></font><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 18, 2017 at 7:46 AM, Ronal W. Larson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net" target="_blank">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div>List:</div><div><br></div><div><span class="m_-8964470444103472570Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>This is to finish my description of the IU stove-women-environment event that ended last Friday.</div><div><span class="m_-8964470444103472570Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><span class="m_-8964470444103472570Apple-tab-span" style="font-family:'PT Sans',sans-serif;font-size:14px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);white-space:pre-wrap"> </span></div><div><p style="box-sizing:border-box;margin:0px 0px 20px;font-family:'PT Sans',sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-variant-ligatures:normal;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span style="box-sizing:border-box">II. </span><strong style="box-sizing:border-box">9:00 – 12:30 p.m. - Panel III: Policy and Fuel Use in Developing Countries</strong></p><div><span class="m_-8964470444103472570Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>This was the final set of four stove-oriented speakers - all with 25 minute time slots. Their bios are mostly at the site <a href="https://international.uiowa.edu/funding/faculty/projects/provosts-global-forum/women’s-health-environment-going-smoke/2017-provost-0" target="_blank">https://international.<wbr>uiowa.edu/funding/faculty/<wbr>projects/provosts-global-<wbr>forum/women%E2%80%99s-health-<wbr>environment-going-smoke/2017-<wbr>provost-0</a> </div><div>but I have tried to add more sites:</div><div><br></div><div>a.<u><b> Dr. Pam Jagger</b></u> - UNC - Chapel Hill - coming at stoves from a social science perspective.</div><div><span class="m_-8964470444103472570Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>See <a href="http://publicpolicy.unc.edu/people/pamela-jagger/" target="_blank">http://publicpolicy.unc.<wbr>edu/people/pamela-jagger/</a></div><div><span class="m_-8964470444103472570Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>She described a UNC group called FUEL - Forest use - Energy - Livelihoods; </div><div><span class="m_-8964470444103472570Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>She emphasized her interest was in Africa; talked also about a Carolina Population Center of which her work is a part</div><div><div><span class="m_-8964470444103472570Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>Her talk emphasized 5 main ideas (hopefully fairly accurately transcribed). She had plentiful slides and photos for each.</div><div><span class="m_-8964470444103472570Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>1. “Wood fuels are it, for now and 25-50 years; preferences are strong”</div><div><span class="m_-8964470444103472570Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>2. “LULCC is limiting supply of high quality biomass, and it matters”</div><div><span class="m_-8964470444103472570Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>3. “Practical innovation in delivery of sustainable fuel sources and improved cooking”</div><div><span class="m_-8964470444103472570Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>4. “…. think artful about scope, scale and cost of efforts and what they can deliver”</div><div><span class="m_-8964470444103472570Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>5. “It is not just about cooking”</div><div>(There is a great deal more to say about Dr. Jagger’s work - so I’ll come back later on this. She was very knowledgeable on char-making stoves.)</div><div><br></div><div>b. <u><b>Prof. Rajendra Prasad</b></u> - with IIT in Delhi</div><div><span class="m_-8964470444103472570Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>His was the only bio missing at the bio site given earlier. Here is one site for his bio: <a href="http://crdt.iitd.ac.in/content/prof-prasad-rajendra" target="_blank">http://crdt.iitd.ac.in/<wbr>content/prof-prasad-rajendra</a></div><div><span class="m_-8964470444103472570Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>He also has extensive experience with gasifiers stoves. </div><div><span class="m_-8964470444103472570Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>More of his talk was on LPG replacement.</div><div><br></div><div>c. <u><b>Madhu Sarin</b></u> Long-time stove activist . She is now a Fellow with a forest preservation group “RRI" (<a href="http://rightsandresources.org/en/#.WPUBglMrI6U" target="_blank">http://rightsandresources.<wbr>org/en/#.WPUBglMrI6U</a>) & Campaign for Survival & Dignity <a href="https://forestrightsact.com/" target="_blank">https://forestrightsact.com/</a> <wbr>. Not currently active in any stove program but her bio mentions prior work on a “Nada Chula” that I found at many places, such as <a href="http://pdf.usaid.gov/pdf_docs/Pnaav641.pdf" target="_blank">http://pdf.usaid.gov/pdf_<wbr>docs/Pnaav641.pdf</a>. The key here was adding a chimney. Ms. Sarin described the frustrations of not being given enough support to carry out a relatively low cost means of improving indoor air quality - almost 35 years ago.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>d. <u><b>Jichong</b></u><b style="text-decoration:underline"> Wu</b> the GACC staffer responsible for China see <a href="http://cleancookstoves.org/about/our-team/42.html" target="_blank">http://cleancookstoves.<wbr>org/about/our-team/42.html</a></div><div> Like India - more than 1 million early stove-related deaths in China; more than 500 stove manufacturers in China</div><div> Mentioned an improved “Kang” stove (A bed heated from below by channels fed from a biomass stove.</div><div> Review of the GACC-coordinated program in China called CCER (Carbon Credit for Emission Reductions). See</div><div> <a href="http://cleancookstoves.org/about/news/12-21-2016-new-stove-and-fuel-innovations-driving-consumer-use-in-china.html" target="_blank">http://cleancookstoves.org/<wbr>about/news/12-21-2016-new-<wbr>stove-and-fuel-innovations-<wbr>driving-consumer-use-in-china.<wbr>html</a></div><div> Has strong interest in policy topics.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div>II. <u><b>Discussion Period </b></u>- (covering all three days); Samples of words heard:</div><div> <a href="http://www.cifor.org/" style="font-family:Roboto,arial,sans-serif;white-space:nowrap;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(102,0,153);text-decoration:none" target="_blank">Center for International Forestry Research</a> (<span style="color:rgb(0,102,33);font-size:14px;white-space:nowrap;font-family:Roboto,arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><a href="http://www.cifor.org/" target="_blank">www.cifor.org/</a>); </span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(0,102,33);font-size:14px;white-space:nowrap;font-family:Roboto,arial,sans-serif;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><span class="m_-8964470444103472570Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span> Using heat pumps for cooking; </span></div><div><span class="m_-8964470444103472570Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>Kirk Smith: Should not equate increased efficiency with health benefits - in absence of proof.</div><div><span class="m_-8964470444103472570Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>can compare stove topics to vaccines for poor - should call support a social investment (as for schools)</div></div><div><span class="m_-8964470444103472570Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span> you can’t make gas dirty - (vs solid fuels which can’t make such as strong claim) </div><div><span class="m_-8964470444103472570Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>stovers should not use the word “subsidy”;</div></div></div><div><br></div><div><span class="m_-8964470444103472570Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>Note this was the end of the Friday morning session - no break for about 4 hours. During lunch the IU organizers received thanks from the IU International program.</div><div><br></div><div><span class="m_-8964470444103472570Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>After a long break, there was a final session with three writers (previously summarized).</div><div><br></div><div>Still coming - some concluding thoughts on this conference</div><div></div></div><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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