<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Neil,<div class="">My point has always been that talk about ‘types of wood’, ‘low density materials’, ‘oily materials’, 'size of primary and secondary holes', 'requirement of fans', 'high ash' etc, etc are all a waste of time as it has been for years with us getting nowhere. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Its past time we need to quantify the statements. Oily wood - mg oil per kg of wood; density in g/cc, size distribution and shape to determine void space for air movement. Volatile and fixed components, ash, moisture, etc. etc. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Determining the above is the Test Package I talk about being used on different biomasses. I have done these type of tests for years. It is about $150 for the package to get the results on a fuel. I can also teach others how I suggest the testing is done. But that is just the beginning.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Then we work on a specific packed fuels. We need air flow and that is a combination of heat developed in the stove body and void space for air movement. That involves size and shape of fuels and carbon densities and packing densities (for batch systems). This part can get complicated. This I’m thinking can be done in a test chamber that all labs use to ‘compare’ packed fuels. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Then we work on stoves and determine the best type of fuels for that stove and see what results they give in the test chamber. That so you can go into an area and test the available fuel in the test chamber and see what stoves can use that fuel. Something like that. But first step is testing the parameters of the fuel. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">All the talk of adjusting air holes and what size they should be seems to me to be pointless without a discussion of fuel packing and void space and other information regarding the fuel being used. If we don’t quantify the statements it is all just years and years of more chit-chat. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Frank</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On May 1, 2017, at 10:47 AM, <a href="mailto:neiltm@uwclub.net" class="">neiltm@uwclub.net</a> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><span style="font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Thanks for these replies.</span><br style="font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br style="font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Frank, sorry if I've missed something obvious, I've been a bit over<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br style="font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">occupied with family traumas, but could you please point me towards your<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br style="font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">test package?</span><br style="font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br style="font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Thanks, Neil Taylor</span><br style="font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br style="font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">On 28 Apr 2017 at 13:50, Frank Shields wrote:</span><br style="font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br style="font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">Hi Neil,<br class=""><br class="">I believe the test package I put together would answer your questions.<br class="">That because when working on the procedures and selecting the different<br class="">tests I had what you are referring to in mind. They include test like:<br class="">Moisture, size distribution, particle shape, particle density, bulk<br class="">density, void space (for air flow), volatiles and fixed carbon using the<br class="">pipe method, Ash and ash properties, - I think that is about it as I<br class="">remember. I had some other ideas using air flowing artificial TMsmokeTM<br class="">but to lack of interest never followed through.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">Then we need to correlate the results from the above tests to determine<br class="">how they relate to a stove performance. That I never attempted but I do<br class="">think I have all the methods and tests that is appropriate to do the job.<br class=""><br class="">Regards<br class=""><br class="">Frank<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">On Apr 28, 2017, at 10:01 AM, <a href="mailto:neiltm@uwclub.net" class="">neiltm@uwclub.net</a> wrote:<br class=""><br class="">I live in the UK, so my references below to species of wood are biased<br class="">for this part of the world.<br class=""><br class="">I have been looking for information about the burn quality of different<br class="">woods, but mostly can only find information relating to open fires.<br class=""><br class="">Poplar in its various sub species is generally rated low as a desirable<br class="">burning wood, and described as 'smoky'. I just burned some dried<br class=""></blockquote>Italian<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">poplar in the Reed sl woodgas campstove, and although it made a smoky<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">start, which was probably down to my lighting technique or lack thereof,<br class="">once underway it burned completely smokelessly and with no stinging of<br class="">the eyes until just before the end when it again produced some smoke<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">briefly.<br class=""><br class="">I would like to understand more about the qualities of different woods<br class=""></blockquote>in<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">relation to TLUD stoves and wondered if anyone has ever attempted to<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">classify or rate woods for these stoves? I understand that some woods<br class="">like hornbeam, plum, hawthorn are the most dense (highest mass), and<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">therefore likely to liberate more heat or a longer burn per batch, and<br class="">that woods like willow or poplar are at the lighter end of the<br class=""></blockquote>spectrum.<br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><br class="">With poplar in particular I would like to understand why it is a smoky<br class="">wood, which it is if you burn it on an open fire? Should that not mean<br class="">it produces more wood gas, thereby making it ideal for TLUDs? I have<br class=""></blockquote>yet<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">to find a problematic wood for these stoves unless it is our cultivated<br class="">apricot in the garden which has always been truly terrible, even when<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">dry. Yet fruit woods are supposed to be prized!<br class=""><br class="">Neil Taylor<br class=""><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">Stoves mailing list<br class=""><br class="">to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br class=""><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" class="">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br class=""><br class="">to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br class=""><br class=""></blockquote><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylis" class="">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylis</a><br class="">ts.org<br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><br class="">for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web<br class=""></blockquote>site:<br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/<br class=""><br class=""></blockquote><br class="">Thanks<br class=""><br class="">Frank<br class="">Frank Shields<br class="">Gabilan Laboratory<br class="">Keith Day Company, Inc.<br class="">1091 Madison Lane<br class="">Salinas, CA 93907<br class="">(831) 246-0417 cell<br class="">(831) 771-0126 office<br class="">fShields@keithdaycompany.com<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">franke@cruzio.com<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">Stoves mailing list<br class=""><br class="">to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br class=""><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" class="">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br class=""><br class="">to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br class=""><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylis" class="">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylis</a><br class=""><a href="http://ts.org/" class="">ts.org</a><br class=""><br class="">for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br class=""><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" class="">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""></blockquote><br style="font-family: Menlo-Regular; 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text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:</span><br style="font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" style="font-family: Menlo-Regular; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a></div></blockquote></div><br class=""><div class="">
<div class="">Thanks</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Frank</div><div class="">Frank Shields</div><div class="">Gabilan Laboratory</div><div class="">Keith Day Company, Inc.</div><div class="">1091 Madison Lane</div><div class="">Salinas, CA 93907</div><div class="">(831) 246-0417 cell</div><div class="">(831) 771-0126 office</div><div class=""><a href="mailto:fShields@keithdaycompany.com" class="">fShields@keithdaycompany.com</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><a href="mailto:franke@cruzio.com" class="">franke@cruzio.com</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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