<div dir="ltr">Paul:<br><br>I agree, but would like to qualify Crispin's hope "<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14.6667px">It would be far more effective far sooner and far cheaper in the long run to promote cleaning burning appliances than to subsidise LPG for the next few decades through its expensive, regulation-ensconced and inevitably long supply chain."</span><div><font face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px"><br></span></font>There are institutional limitations in subsidizing efficiency of appliances and household cooking on direct fire is unlike other kitchen functons. The ISO TC 285 assumption is that some super-duper stoves can be subsidized and "free" biomass will then be used for some super-perfect Tier X rated cookstove. <br><br>I still don't think this assumption has any value or need. As Frank has repeatedly argued, "Fix the fuel". <br><br>I believe modernization of the whole biosolid fuel supply chain - long as that too is, and will necessarily be "regulation-ensconced" - can compete with LPG, beginning with the commercial/institutional cooking market. <br><br>In other words, I think technological advances and soft-finance investments are needed in the entire fuel cycle for biomass. But that would require examining the contexts, the chemistries,and hard work - instead of WHO blather. <br><br>Destroying the dominant paradigm of "deforestation, climate change, health, women's empowerment" won't be easy. I do support LPG and electricity for cooking. It is up to us to prove that we have alternatives. Including coal. <br><br>Nikhil</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><font face="georgia, serif">------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>Nikhil Desai</font></div><div><font face="georgia, serif">(India +91) 909 995 2080<br><i>Skype: nikhildesai888</i><br></font><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 6:35 PM, Paul Anderson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
To all,<br>
<br>
Crispin's message (below) is SOOOOOO important that I am placing it
(might take a day or two) for easier continual access at the EPosts
section of my website <a class="m_-2934421668265727949moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a> (I can remove it if
Crispin objects to its republication there.) <br>
<br>
VERY well stated. EVERYONE should read it. And send it on to
anyone who continues to talk of "dirty fuels". <br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<div class="m_-2934421668265727949moz-forward-container"><br>
<br>
-------- Forwarded Message --------
<table class="m_-2934421668265727949moz-email-headers-table" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0">
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<th nowrap valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT">Subject:
</th>
<td>Re: [Stoves] Another attack on solid fuels by public
health Stoves Digest, Vol 81, Issue 19</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th nowrap valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT">Date: </th>
<td>Wed, 31 May 2017 05:49:16 +0000</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th nowrap valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT">From: </th>
<td>Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
<a class="m_-2934421668265727949moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" target="_blank"><crispinpigott@outlook.com></a></td>
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<tr>
<th nowrap valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT">Reply-To:
</th>
<td>Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
<a class="m_-2934421668265727949moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank"><stoves@lists.bioenergylists.<wbr>org></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th nowrap valign="BASELINE" align="RIGHT">To: </th>
<td>Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
<a class="m_-2934421668265727949moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank"><stoves@lists.bioenergylists.<wbr>org></a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<br>
<br>
<div class="m_-2934421668265727949WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Dear
Karin, Verena and All<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I
appreciate the explanations.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I
have just emerged from the Black Carbon Summit organised by
the Polish Government, ICCI, CCAC and the GACC in Warsaw.
One of the major outcomes was a clear picture of the change
that, while mostly in the mind, has its roots in the
performance of advanced stoves: there is a decoupling of
emissions from fuel type.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Fuels
have chemistry, and stoves have combustion efficiencies.
The former leads to ‘inherent emissions’ and the latter
leads to ‘combustion emissions’. Black Carbon is not an
inherent emission.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">The
concept of a ‘clean fuel’ is, without doubt, rooted in the
assumption that combustion emissions are in fact inherent
emissions. This is a conceptual error. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">There
was a presentation on advances in coal combustion (it was a
conference on small coal and wood fire heating stoves) using
state of the art in Poland. The emissions of PM2.5 (which
are combustion emissions and the lofting of particles of fly
ash) were reduced to 4-5 mg per cu metre (O<sub>2</sub>
normalised to 6%) by the combination of their fifth tier
boilers and the addition of a 1 kW electrostatic
precipitator.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Testing
at the China Agriculture University by Altanzul has shown
that the TJ4.0 stove (which is two models behind the current
one) has emissions in approximately that same range. This
was achieved without electric controls, fans or stack
cleaning. In short, there is no meaningful relationship
between the fuel type (wood, as demonstrated by the
Austrians and by the Masonry Heaters in the US or coal as
demonstrated in Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan this winter) and
PM emissions. In the case of the Austrian and Americans, the
standard (20mg) was met without electronic controls or stack
cleaning.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Thus
the concept incorporated in the thesis of the paper of
‘people moving to clean fuels’ is mistaken. They already use
‘fuels’ which if burned properly, produce very clean
results, as much as 75% below the highest EU standard for
air quality.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I
agree that there is a war on solid fuels but as we heard in
Warsaw, this is not limited to solid fuels only. For about
18 years now there has also been a war on paraffin
(kerosene) waged on the basis that ‘it is burned badly in
lighting appliances in India’ as if that somehow defined
properties of the fuel.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Believe
me, kerosene is still on the hit list of the WHO. It is
classified as a ‘dirty fuel’ in spite of being the most
widely used energy carrier for modern aviation. Ultra-low
emissions kerosene appliances like aircraft, FLOX burners
and stoves are ignored while 19<sup>th</sup> century wick
lamps are held up not to illuminate the subject, but to
cloud the issue.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I
realise it is very fashionable in some circles to promote
subsidised LPG. It would be far more effective far sooner
and far cheaper in the long run to promote cleaning burning
appliances than to subsidise LPG for the next few decades
through its expensive, regulation-ensconced and inevitably
long supply chain.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">If
we want transformation at scale, it is far easier to move a
stove for a day than fuel for a lifetime.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Crispin<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" lang="EN-US"><u></u> ********************<u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Dear
Karin<br>
Thanks for the exchange. <br>
The gasifier solution is a true option and very
promising. Even wood burning stoves are progressing,
e.g. Rocket works stoves et al. I would love to see us
not excluding solutions and always thinking in
alternative options to choose from. <br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
I would love to see who/paho also opening eyes for those
alternatives. <br>
<br>
Thank you<br>
Verena</span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black"></span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
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