<div dir="ltr"><div dir="auto"><div>It is not necessary that a solar cooker have a backup. </div><div><br></div><div>Please stop thinking of the cooking market in terms of vague "integrated cooking solution." Solar cookers can do daytime large-scale tasks. </div><div><br></div><div>Besides, a three-stone wood fire is always a reliable backup. Cutting its use may not satisfy Kirk Smith as "truly health protective", but that makes no difference. </div><div><br></div><div>About the time as I looked into Gelfuel in Malawi, I also talked to some people about solar cookers. My tentative view then (~15 years ago) was that while Gelfuel could be a convenient small-scale backup, solar cooker just did not appeal to cooks. </div><div><br></div><div>Possibly another instance of Boy Scout thermodynamicists who didn't find a good market definition and an industrial product designer. <br><br>In other words, technical standards or lack thereof probably had the least to do with failure. Because solar cookers have a high capital cost, utilization rates play a more significant role. <br><br>Another consideration is the institutional base for marketing and after-sales service. With the kind of locale GIZ experts picked - rural northwest in South Africa - I wonder just who was locally available to source, store solar cookers for display and to serve as a selling and guarantee agent. <br><br>No matter what technical standards you labor on, it's the institutional capacity that is the Achilles' heel. Sitting in Europe and selling in South Africa worked with kerosene lamps a hundred years ago because the fuel was available locally. Selling solar cookers that way required a sanity check. <br><br><br>Nikhil</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br>Nikhil Desai<div><a href="tel:+91%2090999%2052080" value="+919099952080" target="_blank">+91 909 995 2080</a></div><div>Skype: nikhildesai888</div></div><div><br>On Jun 14, 2017, at 8:09 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" target="_blank">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Dear Dieter</div>
<div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Do you know the name(s) of the test methods used during that comparison, and did any of them make it to being accepted as an international solar cooker standard?</div>
<div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Also, thank you for your clarifications and request that we consider the whole solar sector is not a single 'thing'. Because solar cookers require a backup device, often a biomass stove, we should pay attention on this channel. </div>
<div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Arising out of the South African GTZ (at the time) project is the realisation that the biomass stove has to be rapid lighting. By the time the cook gives up on the solar cooked meal, the need for immediate heat is obvious. The report on the project should
be available on line. To be practical, the biomass and solar stoves should be marketed as a pair. We toyed with the idea at the time that the biomass stove could be built into the solar cooker. </div>
<div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Generally speaking the solar cooker cost a lot more than a back up stove. </div>
<div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Regards </div>
<div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Crispin </div>
<br>
<div>
<p></p>
<p>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Dear Stovers,<br>
<br>
A source of confusion concerning solar cookers is the large variety of devices, all of them called "solar cookers". At the Plataforma Solar/Almeria/Spain there was an International Solar Cooker Test by Eurpoean Committee for Solar Cooking Research in 1994 with
25 participating devices. One of them did not cook at all; the SK parabolic cooker (1.4 m reflector diameter) brougt 48 liters of water to the boil per day. Some cookers had direct access to the pot, others not. Some were only applicable for special tasks,
etc. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Thus, general judgments are problematic. Solar cooking is a great opportunity with a high variety of applications. Problems can be overcome, but persistence is necessary, similar e.g. to the development of bicycles.
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Kind regards,<br>
Dieter</span></p>
<p></p>
<br>
<div class="m_-4953579728907496045moz-cite-prefix">Am 14.06.2017 um 03:46 schrieb Michael N Trevor:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Here in the Marshall Islands, the another science teacher wanted them thrown away because they were bulky and had no value in classes centered on environmental science and climate change. Of course we are only about 2/3 meters above sea level<br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 1:01 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
<span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" target="_blank">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div>Nikhil</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="font-size:initial;text-align:initial;line-height:initial">Let's not assume anything. These were the findings of the study which was a multi-year attempt to find out if there was any long term reason to get involved in the promotion
of solar cookers. </span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:initial;text-align:initial;line-height:initial"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:initial;text-align:initial;line-height:initial">The conclusion was, no. And they swore them off. For them, if they had a chance anywhere that was the ideal place, and it was not viable. </span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:initial;text-align:initial;line-height:initial"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:initial;text-align:initial;line-height:initial">Very sane. </span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:initial;text-align:initial;line-height:initial">Crispin
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:initial;text-align:initial;line-height:initial"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:initial;text-align:initial;line-height:initial"><br>
</span></div>
<br>
<div>
<div>Crispin;</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>You have listed enough reasons to dispute the sanity of GIZ experts. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Nikhil<br>
<br>
<br>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
On Jun 13, 2017, at 11:35 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" target="_blank">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div class="m_-4953579728907496045m_-2998778485329479889WordSection1">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class="m_-4953579728907496045m_-2998778485329479889MsoNoSpacing"><span>Solar concentrating cooker:</span></p>
<p class="m_-4953579728907496045m_-2998778485329479889MsoNoSpacing"><span> </span></p>
<p class="m_-4953579728907496045m_-2998778485329479889MsoNoSpacing"><span>One of the main problems encountered with solar cookers (K14, K16 and so on) in the last big GIZ effort in North-West Province of South Africa was, in spite of the rural location, theft of the stoves for sale
to scrap merchants. Aluminum is valuable. </span></p>
<p class="m_-4953579728907496045m_-2998778485329479889MsoNoSpacing"> </p>
<p class="m_-4953579728907496045m_-2998778485329479889MsoNoSpacing">Another common problem is wind tipping them over.</p>
<p class="m_-4953579728907496045m_-2998778485329479889MsoNoSpacing">A third is wind-blown dust getting into the food.</p>
<p class="m_-4953579728907496045m_-2998778485329479889MsoNoSpacing">A fourth is theft of the food.</p>
<p class="m_-4953579728907496045m_-2998778485329479889MsoNoSpacing">A fifth is storage of the unit. </p>
<p class="m_-4953579728907496045m_-2998778485329479889MsoNoSpacing"> </p>
<p class="m_-4953579728907496045m_-2998778485329479889MsoNoSpacing">People have little space in their homes and storage of a valuable cooker outdoors is not practical.</p>
<p class="m_-4953579728907496045m_-2998778485329479889MsoNoSpacing"> </p>
<p class="m_-4953579728907496045m_-2998778485329479889MsoNoSpacing">GIZ spent about 7m Euros on that project and declared no further interest in solar cookers.</p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="m_-4953579728907496045m_-2998778485329479889MsoNoSpacing"> </p>
<p class="m_-4953579728907496045m_-2998778485329479889MsoNoSpacing">Crispin</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Stoves mailing list<br>
<br>
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.or<wbr>g</a><br>
<br>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.or<wbr>g/mailman/listinfo/stoves_list<wbr>s.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>
<a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.o<wbr>rg/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="m_-4953579728907496045mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset> <br>
<pre>______________________________<wbr>_________________
Stoves mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
<a class="m_-4953579728907496045moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.<wbr>org</a>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
<a class="m_-4953579728907496045moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.<wbr>org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_<wbr>lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
<a class="m_-4953579728907496045moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.<wbr>org/</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div id="m_-4953579728907496045DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br>
<table style="border-top:1px solid #d3d4de">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="width:55px;padding-top:18px"><a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank"><img src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif" alt="" width="46" height="29" style="width:46px;height:29px"></a></td>
<td style="width:470px;padding-top:17px;color:#41424e;font-size:13px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;line-height:18px">
Virenfrei. <a href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" style="color:#4453ea" target="_blank">
www.avast.com</a> </td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<a href="#m_-4953579728907496045_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" width="1" height="1"></a></div>
</div>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>______________________________<wbr>_________________</span><br><span>Stoves mailing list</span><br><span></span><br><span>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address</span><br><span><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.<wbr>org</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page</span><br><span><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.<wbr>org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_<wbr>lists.bioenergylists.org</a></span><br><span></span><br><span>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:</span><br><span><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.<wbr>org/</a></span><br><span></span><br></div></blockquote></div></div>