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    Tom, Philip, Crispin, and all,<br>
    <br>
    Yes, interesting.   <br>
    <br>
    My question is about pyrolytic-only gasifiers that leave large
    amounts of char behind, especially as in the TLUD situation.  I have
    thought (assumed, maybe incorrectly) that the ash is constrained
    ("held" or never formed) in the charcoal (except for the edges of
    the charcoal that might have some char-gasification occuring.  If I
    am correct, this would be a contributing factor for TLUD stoves to
    have low particulate emissions.<br>
    <br>
    Please clarify:  is the ash being discussed in the size of
    <PM2.5?   Or is it larger stuff?<br>
    <br>
    Paul<br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email:  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype:   paultlud    Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/2/2017 10:23 AM, Tom Miles wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:002301d30ba3$58e05cf0$0aa116d0$@trmiles.com">
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      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Thanks
            Philip. Interesting source.  That’s the world I work in. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Tom<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
            1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                  style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">
                Stoves [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>]
                <b>On Behalf Of </b>IPC<br>
                <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 01, 2017 3:10 AM<br>
                <b>To:</b> 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'
                <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"><stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org></a><br>
                <b>Cc:</b> 'Crispin Pemberton-Pigott'
                <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com"><crispinpigott@outlook.com></a><br>
                <b>Subject:</b> [Stoves] Fly ash and bottom ash
                composition in biomass fuelled stoves<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"
            lang="EN-ZA">Interesting general conclusions from industrial
            practice at <a
              href="http://www.biofact.eu/biomass-inorganic-split/"
              moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.biofact.eu/biomass-inorganic-split/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"
            lang="EN-ZA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"
            lang="EN-ZA">Prof Philip Lloyd<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"
            lang="EN-ZA">Energy Institute, CPUT<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"
            lang="EN-ZA">SARETEC, Sachs Circle<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"
            lang="EN-ZA">Bellville<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"
            lang="EN-ZA">Tel 021 959 4323<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"
            lang="EN-ZA">Cell 083 441 5247<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"
            lang="EN-ZA">PA Nadia 021 959 4330<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"
            lang="EN-ZA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"
            lang="EN-ZA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"
            lang="EN-ZA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
          1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">
              Stoves [<a
                href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org"
                moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>]
              <b>On Behalf Of </b>Nikhil Desai<br>
              <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 27, 2017 6:07 PM<br>
              <b>To:</b> Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>
              <b>Cc:</b> Crispin Pemberton-Pigott<br>
              <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] New video from Tajikistan and
              Kyrgyzstan stove pilots<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-ZA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-ZA">Crispin, Paul:<br>
              <br>
              A dumb question: Is it the production of gases or the high
              temperatures -- or some sequence thereof -- which makes
              for very low emission rates independent of fuel type and
              quality? Or is it the relatively steady power requirements
              of a heating stove? <br>
              <br>
              It suddenly dawned on me - reading a children's book -
              that the type of large heating stove used in Europe that
              also doubled for cooking was because of the type of
              cooking: grilling, roasting, soups and stews, but less of
              frying and spicing as in Asia. <br>
              <br>
              Or that the cuisine responded to the availability of
              energy delivery system. <br>
              <br>
              Bernard Lewis wrote a brilliant essay called "In the
              Finger Zone", where he said (writing from memory), "The
              world can be divided in three areas by way of eating: fork
              zone, finger zone, chopstick zone. These areas are also
              roughly fresh cream zone, sour cream (or yoghurt) zone,
              and no cream zone." <br>
              <br>
              Now I am thinking of world geographies and human cooking
              histories as "Cookstove zone, Heating and cooking stoves
              zone, and Combo stove zone." <br>
              <br>
              I still hold that for cooking-only stoves with a rich
              enough menu, biomass of low energy density has different
              emission rates according to fuel quality (and operating
              practices, of course). That a WBT can deliver "stove
              performance" independent of fuel quality is presumptively
              dubious. <br>
              <br>
              Nikhil<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-ZA"><br clear="all">
              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Georgia",serif" lang="EN-ZA">------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
                                                          Nikhil Desai</span><span
                                                          lang="EN-ZA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
                                                          style="font-family:"Georgia",serif"
                                                          lang="EN-ZA">(US
                                                          +1) 202 568
                                                          5831<br>
                                                          <i>Skype:
                                                          nikhildesai888</i></span><span
                                                          lang="EN-ZA"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                                          </div>
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          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-ZA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-ZA">On Thu, Jul 27, 2017
                at 12:12 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <<a
                  href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com"
                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>>
                wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    lang="EN-CA">Thanks Michael!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    lang="EN-CA"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    lang="EN-CA">At the moment the engineer, Ulan, and
                    team are preparing a producer’s manual and an
                    installation manual. The latter is very interesting
                    because they have worked out how to install these
                    stoves (4 models) into a wide range of home types,
                    in some cases where the existing product being
                    removed is <i>completely</i> different in the way
                    it fits into the building. Often the traditional
                    stove is a structural element in a wall!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    lang="EN-CA"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    lang="EN-CA">The fuels vary widely. In one region it
                    is almost exclusively walnut! OMG. A lot of fruit
                    wood is burned, a lot of dung for cooking and coal
                    for heating (same stove). Cotton stalks are popular
                    in that whole region. It is difficult to burn
                    slowly.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    lang="EN-CA"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    lang="EN-CA">There is a lot of new work going on.
                    CARITAS Switzerland is working in Tajikistan (Jonas
                    Haller) and he is just starting to produce 700
                    stoves for this season, two models 350 of each. We
                    were collaborating on Skype to get the parts nested
                    better and it is amazing how much better two heads
                    work than one. Jonas is producing them in Muminabad
                    in the deep south, one of the poorest regions of the
                    poorest country in the former Soviet Union.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    lang="EN-CA"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    lang="EN-CA">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="color:#888888" lang="EN-CA">Crispin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    lang="EN-CA"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    lang="EN-CA"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    lang="EN-CA"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                    style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                      lang="EN-CA">Crispin keep on trucking--<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                    style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                      lang="EN-CA"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"
                      style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                        lang="EN-CA">On Thu, Jul 27, 2017 at 10:37 PM,
                        Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <<a
                          href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com"
                          target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>>
                        wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    <blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
                      #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                      <p class="MsoNormal"
                        style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
                          lang="EN-CA">Dear Friends<br>
                          <br>
                          The WB has put out a new combined video
                          showing scenes from the two countries and it
                          is available here<<a
href="http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/video/2017/06/20/clean-individual-heating-solutions-in-the-kyrgyz-republic-and-tajikistan"
                            target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/video/2017/06/20/clean-individual-heating-solutions-in-the-kyrgyz-republic-and-tajikistan</a>>.<br>
                          <br>
                          The is a very brief shot of the gas flame at
                          about 1:25. That is the Model 4 crossdraft
                          coal gasifier flame. Note the colour. When the
                          cover is on, it burns with less disturbance
                          but that is hard to show without a glass
                          cover.<br>
                          <br>
                          There is also a good view towards the end of a
                          TLUD gasifier which has a burn time of about 9
                          hours. The only fuel provided to schools is a
                          very poor quality 'Aine coal' which is about
                          50% rock. It looks like black rock to start
                          and white rock after burning. That TLUD is
                          able to burn it properly provided there is
                          sufficient draft, which means a 5m chimney.
                          Achieving that was quite difficult, I admit
                          and was only solve on literally the last day
                          of the trip in November.<br>
                          <br>
                          There are two videos now but I think the other
                          one has been referenced here before. The new
                          one is combined. A total of 91 homes were
                          involved in the pilot in the two countries.
                          The PM reduction numbers mentioned are modest,
                          the true figures for the Models 4 and 5 coal
                          stove are closer to 99.9%.<br>
                          <br>
                          Regards<br>
                          <span class="m7376678889035057546hoenzb"><span
                              style="color:#888888">Crispin</span></span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    </blockquote>
                  </div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                    style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                      lang="EN-CA"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
                lang="EN-ZA"><br>
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          <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-ZA"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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      <br>
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      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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</pre>
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