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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=NL-BE link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Dears,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'> The Rolls Royes under the vacuum cleaners is DAYSUN with a cyclone and no bag; a HEPA filter of about 8x12 cm/ 3x5 inch .<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>Cost 400€ Motor 120 € . To find out its secrets ….;You need hours because the bandit screws are 5 inch deep in ¼ inch wide …So you must construct tools to get inside . Brushes are low resistance and only sold in China !!! Not in GB .<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>I used this motors + snail invers at 15-20 V AC for a chimney JET .<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'> Our TESTAANKOOP =TEST BUY is not so positive about the absolute filtering !!! <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'> For laser scatter on micron particals NEFELOMETRY a small PC uP fan will do …..But for special AIROSOL (NUC ) measurement filter of 1-2 inch you need a 300 watt vacuum pump with exentric rotor with grafit blades .<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>Other constructors use 1200 Watt to do the same job!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'> Crispin a hair drayer fan is Not 100 watt with no pressure but flow only . The flow RETURNS on a resistance of a filter .<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'> Cyclones and elutriation is used to separate powders. O-2 microns diamond to polish .<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>COULTER COUNTER for blood cells <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'> Andrew congratulations to find cheap particle counters! What more do you need ?FLUORECEINE powder ?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>Canada construct it also for a nice $ price .( Also MIL RANGE FINDERS with Nd laser for 10 Km far particles with a canon ..<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'> Of coarce I have put my nose inside that .peace of toy )<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'> To reduce the smoke particles danger ,you best inject 7KV negative IONS into the air . Dust is charged and drops down glued together ! Make it from 20 diodes and capacitors to multiply 230V or use a TV THT transformer on 2N3055 transistors on 12V<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>Inverse the diodes to get a negative output to steel wool ion injector to your breathing air An sleep better!Like in sea air .<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'>F.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Van:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] <b>Namens </b>Crispin Pemberton-Pigott<br><b>Verzonden:</b> maandag 21 augustus </span><span lang=NL style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>2017 13:41<br><b>Aan:</b> Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br><b>Onderwerp:</b> Re: [Stoves] Wood-fired masonry heaters - training<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Dear Frank<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The filters are 100mm and the EPA filters are 47mm. The additional ‘catch’ is largely responsible for the improvement in repeatability.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I think they catch far below 0.3 µm. It depends on how much is loaded and how sticky it is.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The flow is kept constant using a rather clever trick which is that the sample tube has a branch to the side just before the entrance into the large diameter holding mechanism. This branch is a known distance from the body, tapping into a tune with a known size. There is created a low pressure related to the suction pressure. This is monitored and the motor of the fan/pump is electronically or manually to keep the pressure constant as the filter gets loaded. The automatic one is really good at doing this.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>There is a second mechanism or approach available which is to have a variable hole on the pump suction which can be opened or closed by hand. This ‘wastes’ the suction pressure and permits the gauge pressure in the sample pipe to be held constant.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>It is very simple. They used to use a vacuum cleaner though any air pump will do. I think a vacuum cleaner is overkill. A hairdryer would be enough.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>The flow rate measurement is accomplished by the very simple method of measuring the flow of air into the fire. This is surprisingly easy to do when there is a door over the fire itself (to see it) and the air enters through some or other entrance below the fire. They put a board with a round tube through it and measure the velocity of the air passing through the tube. This is far more accurate than measuring exhaust gas velocity and calculating the volume because the input is constant in character. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Add a bit of math and you get the combusted volume of the fuel. Technically, this method is not as perfect as applying the decombustion theory that I am espousing these days. It is capable of providing ‘a very good guess’ as to the combustion gas volume, much better than either system (Condar or EPA) and also provides the real time HHV and LHV, moisture content of what just burned and its ultimate analysis.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>We intend to incorporate that into a Condar system so as to provide a cheap performance and PM determination at an accessible price. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>In addition, the MDA has copied the HTP system of placing an electronic scale under the fire which gives real time mass change. As anyone who has used it knows (Jiddu and all the rest) this is how to develop a stove and tune it in real time. It provides the ‘mass’ of the chemical mass balance method. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Crispin<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA>Dear Crispin, Stovers,<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA>The HEPA filters down to 0.3 um. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA>When measuring suspended solids in water the filter is 47 mm across and filters out particles > 1.5 um. The filters are pre-washed, dried and placed in a descanter. They weigh about 0.14xx grams each. Using a balance good to 0.1 mg means you need a weight of > 1 mg for an accurate actual reading (I am thinking). <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA>Problem:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA>Your filter is 100 mm diameter. Is it pre-washed or pre- air flow treated? I would think the 1 mg would be the low limit to report an accurate reading. Below that you report ‘less than 1.0 mg per air volume’. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA>Your thinking of using a pump having a standard pull. Adjusted with the filter getting loaded up with particles(?). That could be tricky. And then you have the location of where the air is being pulled from. Temperature, pressure, air flow, dilution, leaks etc all needing to be factored in. You need to know the total air volume going up the stack. Any small error in one of the measurements and the final reading is blown way out of accuracy. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA>Solution:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA>Helium is bleed in with the primary at a constant and known rate. This should be easy and accurate. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA>The volume of the gasses leaving the filter paper is recorded and plotted. It is not adjusted. The gases are also tested for helium concentration and the total helium volume during the ‘run’ is determined. So now we have mg particles per liter helium. Knowing the amount of helium we bleed in with the primary we have a very accurate measure of the total particles released into the room during that time of combustion. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA>Helium is easy to get in the U. S. Used for party balloons and sold in many places. Same as in other countries? <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA>The expense is the equipment to measure it, personal running it and maintenance. Equipping a lab with such a machine is my suggestion of where funding could go. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA>Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA>Frank<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA>On Aug 20, 2017, at 11:49 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Menlo-Regular'>Dear Andrew<br><br>The Condar uses a 100mm diameter filter.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br><br>The links below are to ambient air machines - 1 mg limit which is pretty low. It would require a significant amount of dilution to bring it under that limit.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br><br>The Condar works using ambient air as a dilutant, so the ambient level has to be really low. Really good stoves are so clean the diluting air has to be either very good or filtered. As LBNL found out in Ulaanbaatar, even a HEPA filter is not as good as a top line stove at removing PM.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br><br>I am discussing a new approach using the Condar that will remove the need for dilution. It samples with a small tube maintaining a standard 'pull' from a pump. The automated ones have an electronic pressure sensor/compensator on the pump to keep it very constant. There are a couple of ways it can be done. The Dusttrak uses such a system, diluting (sheathing, actually) using the incoming gases which it first filters.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br><br>Regards<br>Crispin<br><br><br><br><br>Would one of you care to expand on this Condar with a few pointers?<br><br>I've been considering inexpensive sensors for background levels and their variation as well as direct testing<br><br><br><a href="http://tinyurl.com/y8cmwmxv">http://tinyurl.com/y8cmwmxv</a><br><br><a href="http://tinyurl.com/y8zfhzjw">http://tinyurl.com/y8zfhzjw</a><br><br>This is from Aliexpress which seems to be the retail arm of alibaba.<br><br>Andrew<br><br>_______________________________________________<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a></span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA>Frank<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA>Frank Shields<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA>Gabilan Laboratory<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA>Keith Day Company, Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA>1091 Madison Lane<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA>Salinas, CA 93907<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA>(831) 246-0417 cell<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA>(831) 771-0126 office<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA><a href="mailto:fShields@keithdaycompany.com">fShields@keithdaycompany.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA><a href="mailto:franke@cruzio.com">franke@cruzio.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></body></html>