<div dir="ltr">Xavier: <br><br>I still urge you to consider preparing a document on test metrics and protocols that can be discussed in the open by ISO representatives and technical experts worldwide. What is discussed behind closed doors where, when and why shouldn't be your concern. <br><br>There are vested interests in testing protocols and product specifications - which is why national standards organizations exist in the first place, be it fuel analysis or nuclear reactors. <br><br>The discussion here has often attracted heat when you tried to shed light. I might be one of those "rude" people, though I don't think I was personally rude to anybody. <br><br>ISO standards are valid only as countries adopt them and can enforce them; this is not possible in the US. However, there is a "grey market" for stove design and dissemination that can run outside any formal recognition; after all, much of biomass household stoves market is outside the realm of any national regulations. <br><br>It is now CDM and Gold Standard Foundation in company of GACC that are going after what I imagine to be a market for hundreds of billions of dollars if solid fuels are to be eliminated from household cooking - SDG 3.9.1 - by 2035. (Roughly 2-3 btCO2e/y in CO2 and BC reductions depending on 20- or 100-y GWPs and fNRB, whether BC is incorporated in CDM or SDGs or NDC calculus; and roughly 30 b aDALYs/y assuming that a cookstove intervention should aim to achieve at least 10 aDALYs per capita. Now, these will be achieved and marketed gradually, the market shrinking in size as "clean cooking interventions" take hold. My rough calculation for theoretical cumulative market size over 18 years -- at least 20 btCO2e and 100 b aDALYs.) <br><br>A lot of money to be made, from benefits agreed to by experts. Let's see how laws pan out. <br><br><div class="gmail_extra">I repeat, US claims to be a nation of laws. So US entities are bound by legal agreements. GACC may be tested. <br><br>Nikhil<br><br><div><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><font face="georgia, serif"> <br></font><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Sep 4, 2017 at 6:06 PM, Xavier Brandao <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:xvr.brandao@gmail.com" target="_blank">xvr.brandao@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="FR"><div class="gmail-m_-1434114440444821470WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Dear Sally,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Thanks for the clarification.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">In that case, it is not as easy to access and join to ISO TC 285 as it was previously declared.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I then maintain that a conversation including all, any, interested party who wants to contribute to stove testing and protocols has to happen outside of the ISO.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Best,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><br>Xavier<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">De :</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"> Sally Seitz [<a href="mailto:SSeitz@ansi.org" target="_blank">mailto:SSeitz@ansi.org</a>] <br><b>Envoyé :</b> dimanche 3 septembre 2017 12:20<br><b>À :</b> 'Xavier Brandao'; <a href="mailto:ndesai@alum.mit.edu" target="_blank">ndesai@alum.mit.edu</a>; 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'<br><b>Cc :</b> Dr. Ronal Larson; 'Crispin Pemberton-Pigott'; Neeraja Penumetcha<br><b>Objet :</b> RE: [Stoves] News: National Geographic on promotion of gas stoves over improved woodstoves - in Guatemala<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div class="gmail-h5"><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Hello everyone,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I would like to point out that the presentation to which you refer was for the IWA which took place prior to the formation of ISO TC 285. ISO rules are different for an IWA – any interested party may attend an IWA meeting and participation is not limited to National Member Bodies or liaison. The rules are different for participation in ISO Technical and Subcommittees. Participation in ISO TCs and SCs is limited to National Bodies and liaison organizations, and participation includes both offering comments on drafts and attending meetings. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I do hope this clarification helps.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Kind regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Sally <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> Xavier Brandao [<a href="mailto:xvr.brandao@gmail.com" target="_blank">mailto:xvr.brandao@gmail.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, September 02, 2017 5:40 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:ndesai@alum.mit.edu" target="_blank">ndesai@alum.mit.edu</a>; 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves' <<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.<wbr>org</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> Dr. Ronal Larson <<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net" target="_blank">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>>; 'Crispin Pemberton-Pigott' <<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" target="_blank">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>>; Neeraja Penumetcha <<a href="mailto:npenumetcha@cleancookstoves.org" target="_blank">npenumetcha@cleancookstoves.<wbr>org</a>>; Sally Seitz <<a href="mailto:SSeitz@ansi.org" target="_blank">SSeitz@ansi.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Stoves] News: National Geographic on promotion of gas stoves over improved woodstoves - in Guatemala<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Dear Nikhil,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal">« Taking her word, what Ms. Seitz seems to be suggesting is that "opposition to substantial issues" can be expressed by "concerned interests", not necessarily limited to National Standards Bodies that participate in the ISO process, and that the ISO process at least has an obligation to seek to take into account (read that bureaucratese anywhich way you wish) "the views of all parties concerned). »<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">OK, I didn’t know that, thanks for sharing the information, I’ll have a look at it.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal">« I am afraid there is no "We". Despite GACC and World Bank claims about "stove sector" or "improved and clean cooking sector", there is no official stamp on any testing protocol. »<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I am for cooperation rather than division. I think a lot can be worked out by discussion.</span><br><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><br>Best,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><br>Xavier <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:14.6667px"> </span></font></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>