<div dir="ltr">Paul, Andrew: <br><br>I am somewhat baffled at your exchange. I do not know the history of prior discussions on TLUD and biochar on this list. However, it seems to me that a discussion on stoves with char residuals can be conducted ONLY in the context of carbon credits, without getting into the question of how much "climate change benefits" are provided, and can be useful. <br><br>Let me try to explain. I have strong support for raising public and private funds to popularize usable energy technologies for the poor, for transition to "modern energy" (fuel-independent, it's the process that is more important than the primary substances). <br><br>"Efficient" cookstoves with low-cost local fuels happen to be one such class if "modern energy" technologies. The issue, to me, is pleasing the cooks and consumers of foods and beverages, not "ancillary social benefits". <br><br>The computation, certification, and monetization of these ancillary social benefits may require high-cost middlemen. They may also entail reliance on legally indefensible instruments and intellectually indefensible theories. <br><br>I hold that promoting actual USE of "better biomass cookstoves" is more important than these alleged "ancillary social benefits". Quantification by intermediaries has become a cottage industry of beancounting that produces more smoke than usable warmth or light. Their high costs and political, legal or scientific uncertainties deter the penetration rate of what users find acceptable. They may also generate conflicts over metrics and measurement tools for cookstoves and may create incentives to game the methods. (For instance, I find the idea of having just one stove and destroying traditional stove or forswearing "stacking" unacceptable to users.) <br><br>I do not care how much fuel used (may not be good quality wood) is fNRB ('fraction non-renewable biomass"). I do not care how the CO2 reductions are computed (though I do care that non-CO2 reductions are ignored from "global environmental" viewpoint and would argue for 20-year GWP). I would like to see a simplified process blessed under national laws that delivers money to high-quality projects that lead to greater use in relevant contexts. <br><br>This view may be debated on this list, no? Without going into whether biochar is the most cost-effective means of CDR or LPG for aDALYs? <br> <br>It is 25 years since Rio 92 and the first CO2 offset project (nominally, not under any legal scheme; AES tree plantation in Belize). The Gold Standard Foundation has recently advanced a methodology for assigning aDALYs and also for carbon reductions. They claim that these quantified changes meet SDG metrics, though I cannot tell how. <br><br>I hope for more discussion. As before, I offer to share my views on some documents directly with those interested as I finish my reading. For now, note that Gold Standard is ruling out charcoal stoves for its "saleable health product". <br><br>Nikhil<br><br><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="m_1714743614819959597gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><font face="georgia, serif">------------------------------<wbr>------------------------------<wbr>------------<br>Nikhil Desai</font></div><div><span style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">(US <a href="tel:(202)%20568-5831" value="+12025685831" target="_blank">+1) 202 568 5831</a></span><font face="georgia, serif"><br><i>Skype: nikhildesai888</i><br></font><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Sep 10, 2017 at 5:27 PM, Paul Anderson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Andrew,<br>
<br>
Again you are correct about carbon credits. But you are trying to UN-link stove carbon credits from the issues of climate change and Drawdown, about which we must also discuss these char-producing (and very clean burning) TLUD stoves.<br>
<br>
The readers of the Stoves Listservs and the moderators (all very great people) have repeatedly rejected that the drawdown / climate change issues should be fully aired on this Stoves Listserv.<br>
<br>
Please realize the difference. Case 1: Some charcoal stoves (as in the Uga Stove in Uganda that received great praise for being the first carbon credit / Gold Standard project for stoves) earn 1 or 1.5 carbon credits per year for using LESS charcoal, but that charcoal is STILL produced very poorly via traditional char-making methods. Case 2: The TLUD stoves (as in the ChampionTLUD in India) is earning 4 (as in FOUR) carbon credits per year for using LESS biomas (wood) fuel from sustainable sources AND YIELDING CHARCOAL that has economic value AND value for carbon credits (2 of those 4 carbon credits).<br>
<br>
Simply bringing up this previous paragraph is pushing the limits of what is the purpose of the Stoves Listserv. And if the purpose were to be expanded, we would lose some Stoves readers. I am looking for where people are already discussing drawdown and climate change AND would welcome the stoves contribution.<br>
<br>
All comments are welcome.<span class="m_1714743614819959597im m_1714743614819959597HOEnZb"><br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD<br>
Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a><br>
Skype: paultlud Phone: <a href="tel:%2B1-309-452-7072" value="+13094527072" target="_blank">+1-309-452-7072</a><br>
Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a><br>
<br></span><div class="m_1714743614819959597HOEnZb"><div class="m_1714743614819959597h5">
On 9/10/2017 2:02 PM, Andrew Heggie wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
On 10 September 2017 at 18:53, Paul Anderson <<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Andrew,<br>
<br>
You have stated (correctly) the precise reason that I do NOT want to conduct<br>
the needed discussions on the Stoves Listserv.<br>
<br>
The needed discussion is regardless of whether the TLUD stoves are used for<br>
making biochar or for sequestering char or for simply needing less wood for<br>
the cooking tasks.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
I'm surprised at your reply Paul, I don't understand why you feel that<br>
my reason is precisely why you don't want to discuss carbon credits on<br>
here.<br>
<br>
Carbon credits exist just as much as other subsidies which are<br>
applicable to stoves.<br>
<br>
Andrew<br>
<br>
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