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Kevin,<br>
<blockquote type="cite"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;">Note
also that the purpose of this particular Spread Sheet was to
give an approximate value to char produced by TLUD’s. </span></blockquote>
In that regard, char value is a function of char yield and biomass
fuel cost. The number of meals cooked would not then an issue, and
the spreadsheet contains cells that are derived but are not part
of the "solution." Too much "extra" that is not needed in the
spreadsheet.<br>
<br>
If the purpose is to bring in also the number of meals, then there
is more work to be done. Forexample, it is not as simple as the
assumption that energy needed per meal served would be the same for
cooking with the pyrolytic gases as for cooking with the charcoal
fuel. Therefore the spreadsheet contains too few actual
"variables", most of which could be strongly impacted by the
socio-cultural context. This would be not enough "extra" that
should be put into the spreadsheet.<br>
<br>
You have made your point that it is possible that the value of the
char from a TLUD stove might be greater if burned than if
sequestered into soil as biochar. This can be discussed in
general terms. It will not be resolved with a refined quantitative
/ financial analysis. The question remains open: How is the value
of char from a more efficient cookstove (TLUD vs 3-stone) to be
judged?<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/15/2017 5:35 PM,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:kchisholm@seaside.ns.ca">kchisholm@seaside.ns.ca</a> [biochar] wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:031501d32e72$f6582e80$e3088b80$@seaside.ns.ca">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;">Hi
Nikhil<o></o></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;"><o> </o></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;">I
used the term “mealtime” more in the context of a
“cooking session”. Clearly, a number of meals would be
required at “mealtime.”<o></o></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;"><o> </o></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;">Knowing
the number of meals prepared at the “mealtime”, one
can then determine the wood consumption per meal, and
ultimately, the “energy per meal.”<o></o></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;"><o> </o></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;">Note
also that the “energy per meal” must be used with
caution, in that it will vary with the nature of the
meal. For example, a meal of rice and fish could
require a different cooking time than when simmering a
stew or boiling eggs.<o></o></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;"><o> </o></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;">Note
also that the purpose of this particular Spread Sheet
was to give an approximate value to char produced by
TLUD’s. Would you have any further comments or
suggestions in how to improve it in this regard?<o></o></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;"><o> </o></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;">Thanks,
and Best wishes,<o></o></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;"><o> </o></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;">Kevin<o></o></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;">
Nikhil Desai [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:pienergy2008@gmail.com">mailto:pienergy2008@gmail.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 15, 2017 6:09 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"><stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:kchisholm@seaside.ns.ca">kchisholm@seaside.ns.ca</a>; biochar
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com"><biochar@yahoogroups.com></a>; Hugh McLaughlin
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:hsmclaughlin@verizon.net"><hsmclaughlin@verizon.net></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] Calculating cooking costs
and char costs ----Re: [biochar] Where to discuss
STOVES AND CARBON offsets and drawdown<o></o></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o> </o></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Paul: <br>
<br>
Two comments: <br>
<br>
1. If "mealtime" refers to a day (and 3 cooked meals
per day), 1 kg wood per day seems to be on the low
side, unless it is per capita. I remember that a "rule
of thumb" (or "expert estimate") back when people
prepared national energy balances, was "1-2 kg wood <u>per
capita</u> per day". Of course, the gross input per
family depends on many factors including efficiency,
types of cooking tasks, age/sex composition, ambient
temperature and wind patterns, and cook's whims;
however, if the per family net energy per mealtime is
3.7 kWht or 5,750 Btu, I suspect the family may be too
poor to afford enough food from scratch - relying on
more fresh vegetables or uncooked materials or on
partially prepared purchased food. <br>
<br>
This single number -- how much useful (net) energy per
family per year is "required" on average in a given
context - would seem to be very useful, with some
assumed efficiencies, for computations of emissions
and deforestation or loads carried on heads or backs.
But I have seen very few such attempts. Any thoughts?
I will dig up some GACC studies. <br>
<br>
2. The way the spreadsheet is set up, the financial
cost of fuelwood is the most critical assumed
parameter for the breakeven carbon credit value (CCV).
Only at $0.02/kg cost of high-quality wood does the
CCV come close to today's price in the EU ETS. Since
the supply curves for both wood and labor are likely
to at least somewhat upward sloping, the question
becomes, what is the potential - in global terms - for
biochar to compete with other CDR options? <br>
<br>
It would seem that biochar for CDR and charmaking for
local sales (as fuel) are two entirely separate
markets and will probably remain that way for a long
while. <br>
<br>
Does anybody have a good number for useful cooking
energy per household per year? <br>
<br>
Nikhil<br>
<br>
<o></o></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o> </o></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 10:53
PM, Paul Anderson <<a
href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>>
wrote:<o></o></p>
<blockquote style="border-left:solid #CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in;">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Kevin,<br>
<br>
Thanks for the spreadsheet. This is an
interesting situation where calculated numbers
are not matching with some human activities
about the value of charcoal.<br>
<br>
This discussion is only with the Biochar
group, so I am adding the Stoves Listserv and
attaching the spreadsheet.<br>
<br>
Notes;<br>
<br>
The use of BTU/LB in columns H and I should be
in the green (calculated) values and the
corresponding metric units (which you provide)
should be the yellow variables that can be
entered. Please.<br>
<br>
I notice that changes in the Value of unburned
char/kg (C23 ) is essentially linked to the
cost of fuel wood (C5) , and therefore
virtually dictate the conclusion of carbon
credit pricing needed (C28 ). So, the price
stays quite high.<br>
<br>
****************<br>
A. Consider the case of the cook who has no
real use for the char, which means that the
cost of fuel is 100% allocated to the
cooking, and the resultant char has zero
value. To that cook there is no trade-off
about char being used for cooking other
meals. Selling the char is "pure profit",
whether it is a calculated value of $0.16/kg
(as in C26) or merely $0.12/kg as in Deganga,
India, or only $0.08/kg which is still better
than nothing.<br>
<br>
B. Current "traditional" cooking with
charcoal that is produced by generally
inefficient "traditional" char-making methods
would have a char yield (C6) of between 10%
(burning too much to ash) and 25% (leaving
volatiles in the char, or even some incomplete
pyrolysis/torrification). <br>
<br>
C. But for those people who produce
traditional char, the "cost of fuel wood" (C5)
could be as low as zero (illegal cutting or
destructive cutting) or some notional value of
the time spent to make the
charcoal. <br>
<br>
Others need to comment also. <br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<br>
<o></o></p>
<pre>Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD<o></o></pre>
<pre>Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">psanders@ilstu.edu</a><o></o></pre>
<pre>Skype: paultlud Phone: <a href="tel:%28309%29%20452-7072" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">+1-309-452-7072</a><o></o></pre>
<pre>Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.drtlud.com</a> <o></o></pre>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;">
<div>
<div
id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335ygrp-mlmsg">
<div
id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335ygrp-msg">
<div
id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335ygrp-text">
<pre>Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Pa <o></o></pre>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;"> </span><o></o></p>
<div>
<div style="border-top:solid
#E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt
0in 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;"> </span><a
href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;">biochar@yahoogroups.com</span></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;"> [</span><a
href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;">mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com</span></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;">] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday,
September 11, 2017 4:02 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Hugh McLaughlin
</span><a
href="mailto:hsmclaughlin@verizon.net"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;"><hsmclaughlin@verizon.net></span></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;">; </span><a
href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;">biochar@yahoogroups.com</span></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re:
[biochar] Where to discuss
STOVES AND CARBON offsets
and drawdown</span><o></o></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o></o></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o></o></p>
<div
id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335ygrp-mlmsg">
<div
id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335ygrp-msg">
<div
id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335ygrp-text">
<p>Hugh and Kevin,<br>
<br>
First to Hugh: Why do you
write <o></o></p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal">$0.10/kg
is a more reasonable
assumption.<o></o></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal">when
that is what Kevin
actually said. <br>
<br>
Then to Kevin: Actually,
it the char yield is 20%
per kg of fuel (closer to
actual than is 25% or
30%), then the number
becomes <span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;">$US
250 per tonne of char =
$US250/3.42 = $US 73.10
per tonne of CO2
equivalent. </span><br>
<br>
To all: As reported in
the Deganga Case Study
(page 4, 3rd paragraph),
in that case study the
people <b>were actually
paying US$0.075 per kg
of firewood.</b> And
they burn 3 to 4 kg per
day (which is less than
half of baseline fuel
consumption). Note: 4 kg
of firewood at 20% char
yield would be about 0.8
kg of char per day
(matches the measured
quantities of char
purchased from the
households). <br>
<br>
And they were receiving
payment of $0.12 per kg of
char via the "Earn while
you cook" arrangements
(page 4, second paragraph
from the bottom of the
page), which would be
$0.04 per 0.3 kg (just
citing Kevin's initial
number for some
comparison) or $0.024 per
0.2 kg (the approximate
actual char production per
day of cooking.).<br>
<br>
Can we use some of these
above numbers and send a
revised statement,
please? <br>
<br>
And if the point is still
<o></o></p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;">it is more advantageous for the Cook to burn
it [the char] for
another meal.</span><o></o></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;">then
why are the people so
delighted with the
charcoal buyback? ( ??
cultural reasons??? such
as not having a tradition
of cooking with charcoal
at the household level
(true) ... or their
perception of the value of
a few cents is greater
than their perception of
the expense of the cooking
task? ... or some other
reason(s) ???<br>
<br>
All are welcome to
comment, please.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<o></o></p>
<pre>Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD<o></o></pre>
<pre>Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">psanders@ilstu.edu</a><o></o></pre>
<pre>Skype: paultlud Phone: <a href="tel:%28309%29%20452-7072" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">+1-309-452-7072</a><o></o></pre>
<pre>Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.drtlud.com</a><o></o></pre>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On
9/11/2017 1:22 PM, Hugh
McLaughlin wrote:<o></o></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;">
<div>
<div
id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1505143290346_69115">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white;"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black;">ERRATA:
$10/tonne is
$0.01/kg.</span><o></o></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1505143290346_69114">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white;"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black;"> </span><o></o></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1505143290346_69117">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white;"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black;">If
there is any
transportation,
$100/tonne or the
basis used for the
calculation:
$0.10/kg is a more
reasonable
assumption.</span><o></o></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1505143290346_69118">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white;"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black;"> </span><o></o></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1505143290346_69113">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white;"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black;">Hugh
McLaughlin, PhD,
PE</span><o></o></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white;"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black;">CTO
- NextChar.com</span><o></o></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white;"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black;"> </span><o></o></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white;"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black;">On
Monday,
September 11,
2017 2:03 PM,
</span><a
href="mailto:kchisholm@seaside.ns.ca[biochar]"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;">"kchisholm@seaside.ns.ca
[biochar]"</span></a><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black;">
</span><a
href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;"><biochar@yahoogroups.com></span></a><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black;">
wrote:</span><o></o></p>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white;"> <o></o></p>
<div>
<div
id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335yiv1179526857">
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white;"> <o></o></p>
<div
id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335yiv1179526857ygrp-mlmsg">
<div
id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335yiv1179526857ygrp-msg">
<div
id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335yiv1179526857ygrp-text">
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Hi Paul</span><o></o></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span><o></o></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Assume that
such fuelwood
costs $US10
per tonne, or
$US.10 per kg.</span><o></o></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Assume that 1
kg of such
wood is
“burned” in a
TLUD, to cook
a meal, and
that there is
.25 kg char
yield. </span><o></o></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span><o></o></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Assume also
that the char
could be used
to cook a
second meal.</span><o></o></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">The cost of
fuel per meal
is thus
$US.10, if the
char is not
used for
cooking, OR,
it is $US.05
if the char is
subsequently
used to cook a
second meal.</span><o></o></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span><o></o></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Thus, if
somebody gave
the Cook
$US.05 for the
.3 kg of char,
the Cook could
be “revenue
neutral”.</span><o></o></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span><o></o></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Thus, the cost
of “Carbon
Credits” that
reaches the
actual Cook
should be a
minimum of
$US.05/.3 kg
char = $US.167
per kg char,
or $US167 per
tonne char =
$US167/3.42 =
approximately
$US48.80 per
tonne of CO2
equivalent.</span><o></o></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span><o></o></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">CONCLUSION:
With the
costing and
performance
assumptions
shown above,
unless the
Cook gets more
than the
equivalent of
$US48.80 per
tonne CO2
carbon
credits, it is
not
advantageous
for the Cook
to “sell” the
char… it is
more
advantageous
for the Cook
to burn it for
another meal.</span><o></o></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span><o></o></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Does this make
sense to you?</span><o></o></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span><o></o></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Best wishes,</span><o></o></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span><o></o></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Kevin</span><o></o></p>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="border-top:solid
#E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt
0in 0in 0in;">
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white;"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span><a
href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">biochar@yahoogroups.com</span></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;"> [</span><a
href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com</span></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;">] <br>
<b>Sent:</b>
Monday,
September 11,
2017 11:53 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> </span><a
href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;">biochar@yahoogroups.com</span></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;">;
Doc Anderson </span><a
href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;"><psanders@ilstu.edu></span></a><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;"><br>
<b>Subject:</b>
Re: [biochar]
Where to
discuss STOVES
AND CARBON
offsets and
drawdown</span><o></o></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white;"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica
Neue",serif;color:black;"> </span><o></o></p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white;"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica
Neue",serif;color:black;">
</span><o></o></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335yiv1179526857ygrp-mlmsg">
<div
id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335yiv1179526857ygrp-msg">
<div
id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335yiv1179526857ygrp-text">
<div
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white;"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica
Neue",serif;color:black;">Dear
Shengar,<br>
<br>
Thank you for
the input.<br>
<br>
World figures
are that about
3 billion
persons have
meals prepared
on solid fuel
(mostly
biomass).
Family size
(especially
HOUSEHOLD
size,
referring to
the number of
people who eat
together)
should be 5 or
6, which
would put the
number of
households
between 600
million and
500 million.
Those are the
numbers that I
prefer to use.<br>
<br>
I agree with
nearly a kilo
of char
produced per
day per TLUD
stove
(confirmed in
Deganga,
India,
study). 365
days would
yield about a
third of on
ton of char
per
household. 3
household
become a
ton/yr.
30,000 HH
would be
10,000 tons.
300,000,000 HH
(about half of
the needed
cookstoves)
would be
100,000,000
tons.<br>
<br>
So it would
take 10 years
to reach one
GIGA ton,
which is
1,000,000,000
tons.
(Please check
my math.)<br>
<br>
In the
Drawdown
project, the
time period is
2020 to2050,
which is 3
decade, or
"potentially"
3 gigatons of
char
sequestration.<br>
<br>
3 GT is only
1/5th of the
GT calculated
for ALL
cookstoves,
and over 3
times more
that what was
calcualted for
ALL biochar by
2050. Clearly
there is more
to the
drawdown
calculations
than the
simple numbers
above.<br>
<br>
Paul</span><o></o></p>
</div>
<pre style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD</span><o></o></pre>
<pre style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">Email: </span><a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">psanders@ilstu.edu</a><o></o></pre>
<pre style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">Skype: paultlud Phone: <a href="tel:%28309%29%20452-7072" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">+1-309-452-7072</a></span><o></o></pre>
<pre style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">Website: </span><a href="http://www.drtlud.com/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.drtlud.com</a><o></o></pre>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white;"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica
Neue",serif;color:black;">On
9/11/2017 1:27
AM, shengar </span><a
href="mailto:shengar@aol.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",serif;">shengar@aol.com</span></a><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",serif;color:black;">
[biochar]
wrote:</span><o></o></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;">
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white;"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica
Neue",serif;color:black;">
</span><o></o></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335yiv1179526857ygrp-text">
<div
id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335yiv1179526857edo-message">
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white;">The ballpark numbers I think Albert Bates has
crunched but I
play with
these numbers:<o></o></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white;"> <o></o></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white;">About 1 billion households cook with biomass,
so if all had
TLUDs,
producing
about a kilo
per day of
biochar that
would be some
one million
tons per day,
365 million
tons per year,
a gigaton of
CO2 every 3
years.
(accounting
for other
greenhouse gas
reductions
when biochar
is put in
soil)<br>
And increased
rates of soil
carbon
sequestration<o></o></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div
id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335yiv1179526857edo-original">
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;">
<div
id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335yiv1179526857edo-meta">
<div
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;">
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white;">On Sep 10, 2017 at 9:29 AM, <<a
href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">Paul Anderson psanders@ilstu.edu
[biochar]</a>>
wrote: <o></o></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white;"> <o></o></p>
</div>
<div
id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335yiv1179526857ygrp-text">
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white;">Dear Stovers and Biochar folk,<br>
<br>
The financial
part of
advancing the
TLUD stove
situation
(IMO) keeps
coming back to
the value of
carbon offsets
generated.
But that topic
is too thinly
related to the
purpose of the
Stoves
Listserv or
the Biochar
Listserve.
So I will
sending this
message. <br>
<br>
The <u>stoves-related
carbon-issues
discussion </u>(generating
carbon
credits,
global
drawdown, etc)
need
discussion.
So I request
some
assistance to
find where
this can be
discussed.
Does such a
place already
exist?<br>
<br>
Also, who
among us want
to be into
that OTHER
discussion?
Paul, Ron, and
who else?<br>
<br>
Paul<o></o></p>
</div>
<pre style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">-- </span><o></o></pre>
<pre style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD</span><o></o></pre>
<pre style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">Email: </span><a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">psanders@ilstu.edu</a><o></o></pre>
<pre style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">Skype: paultlud Phone: <a href="tel:%28309%29%20452-7072" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">+1-309-452-7072</a></span><o></o></pre>
<pre style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">Website: </span><a href="http://www.drtlud.com/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.drtlud.com</a><o></o></pre>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white;"> <o></o></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white;"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica
Neue",serif;color:black;"> </span><o></o></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white;"> <o></o></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o></o></p>
</div>
</div>
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</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o></o></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o> </o></p>
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#ygrp-mkp #ads {
margin-bottom: 10px;
}
#ygrp-mkp .ad {
padding: 0 0;
}
#ygrp-mkp .ad p {
margin: 0;
}
#ygrp-mkp .ad a {
color: #0000ff;
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc {
font-family: Arial;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd {
margin: 10px 0px;
font-weight: 700;
font-size: 78%;
line-height: 122%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad {
margin-bottom: 10px;
padding: 0 0;
}
#actions {
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 11px;
padding: 10px 0;
}
#activity {
background-color: #e0ecee;
float: left;
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 10px;
padding: 10px;
}
#activity span {
font-weight: 700;
}
#activity span:first-child {
text-transform: uppercase;
}
#activity span a {
color: #5085b6;
text-decoration: none;
}
#activity span span {
color: #ff7900;
}
#activity span .underline {
text-decoration: underline;
}
.attach {
clear: both;
display: table;
font-family: Arial;
font-size: 12px;
padding: 10px 0;
width: 400px;
}
.attach div a {
text-decoration: none;
}
.attach img {
border: none;
padding-right: 5px;
}
.attach label {
display: block;
margin-bottom: 5px;
}
.attach label a {
text-decoration: none;
}
blockquote {
margin: 0 0 0 4px;
}
.bold {
font-family: Arial;
font-size: 13px;
font-weight: 700;
}
.bold a {
text-decoration: none;
}
dd.last p a {
font-family: Verdana;
font-weight: 700;
}
dd.last p span {
margin-right: 10px;
font-family: Verdana;
font-weight: 700;
}
dd.last p span.yshortcuts {
margin-right: 0;
}
div.attach-table div div a {
text-decoration: none;
}
div.attach-table {
width: 400px;
}
div.file-title a, div.file-title a:active, div.file-title a:hover, div.file-title a:visited {
text-decoration: none;
}
div.photo-title a, div.photo-title a:active, div.photo-title a:hover, div.photo-title a:visited {
text-decoration: none;
}
div#ygrp-mlmsg #ygrp-msg p a span.yshortcuts {
font-family: Verdana;
font-size: 10px;
font-weight: normal;
}
.green {
color: #628c2a;
}
.MsoNormal {
margin: 0 0 0 0;
}
o {
font-size: 0;
}
#photos div {
float: left;
width: 72px;
}
#photos div div {
border: 1px solid #666666;
height: 62px;
overflow: hidden;
width: 62px;
}
#photos div label {
color: #666666;
font-size: 10px;
overflow: hidden;
text-align: center;
white-space: nowrap;
width: 64px;
}
#reco-category {
font-size: 77%;
}
#reco-desc {
font-size: 77%;
}
.replbq {
margin: 4px;
}
#ygrp-actbar div a:first-child {
/* border-right: 0px solid #000;*/
margin-right: 2px;
padding-right: 5px;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg {
font-size: 13px;
font-family: Arial, helvetica,clean, sans-serif;
*font-size: small;
*font: x-small;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg table {
font-size: inherit;
font: 100%;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {
font: 99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {
font:115% monospace;
*font-size:100%;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg * {
line-height: 1.22em;
}
#ygrp-mlmsg #logo {
padding-bottom: 10px;
}
#ygrp-msg p a {
font-family: Verdana;
}
#ygrp-msg p#attach-count span {
color: #1E66AE;
font-weight: 700;
}
#ygrp-reco #reco-head {
color: #ff7900;
font-weight: 700;
}
#ygrp-reco {
margin-bottom: 20px;
padding: 0px;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li a {
font-size: 130%;
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li {
font-size: 77%;
list-style-type: square;
padding: 6px 0;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov ul {
margin: 0;
padding: 0 0 0 8px;
}
#ygrp-text {
font-family: Georgia;
}
#ygrp-text p {
margin: 0 0 1em 0;
}
#ygrp-text tt {
font-size: 120%;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {
border-right: none !important;
}
-->
</style>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
<!-- end group email -->
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>