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To all.<br>
<br>
Thanks for the explanation of 47%C<br>
Something is still not clear:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Beginning with the baseline fuelwood use of
187,800 kg of fuelwood per year per village, if we assume a 10%
moisture content, the baseline fuelwood is equivalent to 170,700
kg of dry fuelwood. </blockquote>
I can accept that. That is about 5 kg of wood per household per
day.<br>
<blockquote type="cite">We assume that dry mass can be converted to
carbon mass using 47%C (Ryan et al., 2011),</blockquote>
I do not yet accept this (above). Dry biomass is carbohydrates.
C and O and H, in the approximate proportion of CH<sub>2</sub>O
(Tom Reed has more refined proportions, but I cannot find it at this
moment) . H has almost no weight. The O (at atomic weight 16) is
a bit heavier than C at 12.. So when the O is gone during
pyrolysis, about half of the total dry weight (47%) is attributed to
carbon. That much is fine.<br>
<br>
But during pyrolysis, almost half of the carbon leaves the scene in
the form of pyrolytic combustible gases that include C atoms. How
much of the C gets converted into graphine sheets of charcoal can
vary with the pyrolysis temperature. When pyrolysis is at less than
450 deg C, some of the carbon still hangs around in tarry / greasy
content inside of charcoal, but it is not the same as the carbon of
the charcoal.<br>
<br>
So, if the dry wood is 170,700 kg, and half of the weight leaves as
exiting oxygen atoms, then that would be what the article said was<br>
<blockquote type="cite"> resulting in 80,240 kgC per year per
village. <br>
</blockquote>
But that is the TOTAL of carbon. About half of that C is gone in
the pyrolytic gases, leaving about 40,100 kg C per year per village.<br>
<br>
Did I miss something? Am I talking about something different? I
am here to learn. <br>
<br>
But if I am correct, what are the implications for the Jagger
article? <br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/16/2017 7:14 PM, 'Tom Miles'
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:tmiles@trmiles.com">tmiles@trmiles.com</a> [biochar] wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:001a01d32f49$e16c8520$a4458f60$@trmiles.com">
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<p class="MsoNormal">Paul,<o></o></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">If you do what is called an “Ultimate
Analysis” of the dry wood fuel you will get about 47% of
the dry weight as elemental carbon. (ASTM method
E777-17). The carbon is physically in the form of
cellulose, hemicellulose and lignin. When you heat the
wood in pyrolysis or gasification you will get about
half of the carbon in the form of charcoal. The rest
converts to CO, CO2, or other gases. <o></o></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o> </o></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Tom <o></o></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o> </o></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose"
moz-do-not-send="true"><o> </o></a></p>
<span></span>
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<div style="border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt
0in 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Stoves
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Frank Shields<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, September 16, 2017 4:11 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"><stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com">biochar@yahoogroups.com</a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:hsmclaughlin@verizon.net">hsmclaughlin@verizon.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] Calculating cooking
costs and char costs ----Re: [biochar] Where to
discuss STOVES AND CARBON offsets and drawdown<o></o></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o> </o></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I think they are referring to
converting Organic Matter to Organic Carbon. <o></o></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">For biomass they typically consider
about half biomass to be carbon (DAF)). <o></o></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o> </o></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">But then we have some of this loss
during combustion so around 25% - I am thinking (DAF
basis).<o></o></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o> </o></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Frank<o></o></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o> </o></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o> </o></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o> </o></p>
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<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Sep 16, 2017, at 3:49 PM,
Paul Anderson <<a
href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu"
moz-do-not-send="true">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>>
wrote:<o></o></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o> </o></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;background:white;">tom,</span><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;"><br>
<br>
<span style="background:white;">This quote is
from Pam Jagger's article, and cites Ryan.</span></span><o></o></p>
<blockquote
style="margin-left:3.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white;">We
assume that dry mass can be converted to
carbon mass using 47%C (Ryan et al., 2011),<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;"><o></o></span></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;background:white;">What
does " 47%C " actually mean? That is not
the same as "% yield of charcoal compared to
dry-weight of biomass" <span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;"><br>
<br>
<span style="background:white;">Who can
explain such a process with such a high
yield of charcoal? I did not think that
it is possible, unless it is a bit beyond
torrified wood.</span><br>
<br>
<span style="background:white;">Paul</span></span><o></o></p>
<pre style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD<o></o></span></pre>
<pre style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;">Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" moz-do-not-send="true">psanders@ilstu.edu</a><o></o></span></pre>
<pre style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;">Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072<o></o></span></pre>
<pre style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;">Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com/" moz-do-not-send="true">www.drtlud.com</a><o></o></span></pre>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span
style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;">On
9/16/2017 12:05 PM,<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="mailto:tmiles@trmiles.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">tmiles@trmiles.com</a><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span>[biochar]
wrote:<o></o></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote
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<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white;">We
could estimate the potential carbon
products and benefits (or costs) from
TLUDs using known data from TLUD
efficiency tests and real examples.
For example, what impact could a TLUD
have on the scenario tested in the
work in Malawi that was posted
yesterday by Pam Jagger?<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;"><o></o></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white;"> <span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;"><o></o></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white;">“Similarly,
the average amount of fuelwood
collected was estimated at 1878 kg per
year per household, or 187,800 kg of
fuelwood per year per village. We
relate the fuelwood use in kilograms
to hectares to better quantify the
regional forest impact. From the rural
exposure monitoring data set, we find
the average moisture content of the
fuel (woody miombo biomass) to be 10%.
Beginning with the baseline fuelwood
use of 187,800 kg of fuelwood per year
per village, if we assume a 10%
moisture content, the baseline
fuelwood is equivalent to 170,700 kg
of dry fuelwood. We assume that dry
mass can be converted to carbon mass
using 47%C (Ryan et al., 2011),
resulting in 80,240 kgC per year per
village. A study of carbon stocks in
miombo woodland in Mozambique found
that woody biomass totaled 33.3 tC/ha
(Ryan et al., 2011). If we assume
similar composition of woodland, we
find that the baseline case results in
a miombo woodland deforestation rate
of approximately 2.41 ha per year per
village.”<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;"><o></o></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white;"> <span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;"><o></o></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white;">What
impact could a TLUD have on 1878
kg/household per year? How much
biochar/charcoal would be produced and
at what value? <span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;"><o></o></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white;"> <span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;"><o></o></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white;">Health
Alert: Reading Pam’s paper could raise
Nikhil’s blood pressure. : - )<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;"><o></o></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white;"> <span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;"><o></o></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white;">Tom<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;"><o></o></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white;"> <br>
</p>
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