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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'>To the question, “What impact could a TLUD have on 1878 kg fuelwood/household per year? How much biochar/charcoal would be produced and at what value? “<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'>Pam Jagger’s paper estimates the value of fuel to be equal to the estimated labor cost for collecting the fuel and maintain a traditional three stone fire. For 100 homes labor was estimated at $3604/year. That would make the Miombo wood fuel (Uapaca kirkiana<span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"AdvTT94c8263f.I",serif'> </span>10% MC) worth $3604/187800 kg = $.019/kg. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'>Using the TLUD would save half the fuel, or 93,900 kg equal to $1,802 if the labor was used for other income.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'>The TLUD would also produce 93,900 kg x 0.2 = 18,780 kg char. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'>Using Kevin’s spreadsheet the fuel value of the char would be $0.029/kg which could provide an additional $545/yr in income to the village (18,780 x $0.29/kg). That is equal to a carbon credit of $8.60-$11/tonne CO2 equivalent depending on how much carbon you assign to sequestration (2.66-3.4kgCO2/kg char). Compare $0.03/kg with $0.12/kg being received for TLUD char in the project in India.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'>The 18,780 kg of char could also be used in the village as a soil amendment to help restore degraded land to production or to improve production on existing land. If it is used strategically and blended with other organic matter it could reduce fertilizer use or produce either more food for the village or crops for sale. Someone familiar with crops, soils, and biochar in the Machinga and Kasungu Districts of Malawi<span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"AdvTT5235d5a9",serif'> </span>can estimate the potential value added by using the biochar locally. These districts represent two very different agro-ecological zones as described by Nalivata et. al. in Wortmann and Sones, (pp113-124). Researchers in SE Asia have been working on a biochar tool that could be used optimize fertilizer use using the data presented by Nalivata et. al. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'>The use of biochar is increasingly being recognized in Sub Saharan Africa. One example is in the recent CAB International Publication, “Fertilizer Use Optimization in Sub-Saharan Africa”, Charles S. Wortmann and Keith Sones, editors, in the series Optimizing Fertilizer Recommendations in Africa. 2017. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><a href="http://agronomy.unl.edu/research/OFRA/OFRA-book-high-res2.pdf">http://agronomy.unl.edu/research/OFRA/OFRA-book-high-res2.pdf</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'>They discuss traditional uses of biochar in Madagascar and potential uses in Africa. They conclude that, “Potential synergies of combining different alternatives sometimes exist, especially for situations of low soil productivity and little response to fertilizer application, but more often effects are mostly additive. Increases and improved use of organic resources, increased integration of legumes in rotations, crop rotation, increasing soil organic matter and improvement in associated soil properties such as through rotation of perennial with annual crops and use of <b><i>biochar</i></b>, better use of fertilizer and reducing soil water deficits, are addressed.”<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'>TLUD stoves and other small scale biochar producing devices are not likely to be adopted unless the value added can be demonstrated. The EU funded BiocharPlus project has attempted this in several countries in Sub Saharan African. <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/biocharplusproject/home">https://sites.google.com/site/biocharplusproject/home</a> This project has evolved into an African Biochar Partnership. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><a href="http://blog.worldagroforestry.org/index.php/2016/03/17/new-partnership-for-biochar-in-africa/">http://blog.worldagroforestry.org/index.php/2016/03/17/new-partnership-for-biochar-in-africa/</a> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'>The UN Global Environment Fund project Biochar for Sustainable Soils (B4SS) has been using stoves projects to look at the potential impact on land degradation in Kenya, Ethiopia and other countries. <a href="http://biochar.international/">http://biochar.international/</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'>We need more local demonstrations if biochar producing stoves are to be adopted. It is a small step from TLUD stoves to larger devices like the Warm Heart Foundation trough kiln. <a href="http://warmheartworldwide.org/new-type-fc-biochar-production-unit/">http://warmheartworldwide.org/new-type-fc-biochar-production-unit/</a> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Tom Miles<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Chair <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>International Biochar Initiative<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Biochar-international.org<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><img border=0 width=51 height=37 style='width:.5291in;height:.3833in' id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.jpg@01D32FB6.6CB32730" alt=Logo160.><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> biochar@yahoogroups.com [mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, September 16, 2017 7:58 PM<br><b>To:</b> biochar <biochar@yahoogroups.com><br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Stoves] Calculating cooking costs and char costs ----Re: [biochar] Where to discuss STOVES AND CARBON offsets and drawdown<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div id=ygrp-mlmsg><div id=ygrp-msg><div id=ygrp-text><p>Excuse me, Tom. I raised the same issue before I read your post. So do we say 23% (under theoretical constraints) is converted to char?<br><br>-------- Original message --------<br>From: "'Tom Miles' <a href="mailto:tmiles@trmiles.com">tmiles@trmiles.com</a> [biochar]" <<a href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com">biochar@yahoogroups.com</a>> <br>Date: 2017/09/16 17:14 (GMT-08:00) <br>To: 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves' <<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>> <br>Cc: <a href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com">biochar@yahoogroups.com</a>, <a href="mailto:hsmclaughlin@verizon.net">hsmclaughlin@verizon.net</a> <br>Subject: RE: [Stoves] Calculating cooking costs and char costs ----Re: [biochar] Where to discuss STOVES AND CARBON offsets and drawdown <br><br> <o:p></o:p></p><div id=ygrp-text><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Paul,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>If you do what is called an “Ultimate Analysis” of the dry wood fuel you will get about 47% of the dry weight as elemental carbon. (ASTM method E777-17). The carbon is physically in the form of cellulose, hemicellulose and lignin. When you heat the wood in pyrolysis or gasification you will get about half of the carbon in the form of charcoal. The rest converts to CO, CO2, or other gases. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Tom <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><a name="_MailEndCompose"> </a><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>From:</b> Stoves [<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Frank Shields<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, September 16, 2017 4:11 PM<br><b>To:</b> Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com">biochar@yahoogroups.com</a>; <a href="mailto:hsmclaughlin@verizon.net">hsmclaughlin@verizon.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] Calculating cooking costs and char costs ----Re: [biochar] Where to discuss STOVES AND CARBON offsets and drawdown<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I think they are referring to converting Organic Matter to Organic Carbon. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>For biomass they typically consider about half biomass to be carbon (DAF)). <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>But then we have some of this loss during combustion so around 25% - I am thinking (DAF basis).<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Frank<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Sep 16, 2017, at 3:49 PM, Paul Anderson <<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;background:white'>tom,</span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br><br><span style='background:white'>This quote is from Pam Jagger's article, and cites Ryan.</span></span><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-left:3.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'>We assume that dry mass can be converted to carbon mass using 47%C (Ryan et al., 2011),<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;background:white'>What does " 47%C " actually mean? That is not the same as "% yield of charcoal compared to dry-weight of biomass" <span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br><br><span style='background:white'>Who can explain such a process with such a high yield of charcoal? I did not think that it is possible, unless it is a bit beyond torrified wood.</span><br><br><span style='background:white'>Paul</span></span><o:p></o:p></p><pre style='background:white'><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a></span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com/">www.drtlud.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></pre><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>On 9/16/2017 12:05 PM,<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:tmiles@trmiles.com">tmiles@trmiles.com</a><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>[biochar] wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-left:3.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;text-align:start;word-spacing:0px'><div id=ygrp-mlmsg><div id=ygrp-msg><div id=ygrp-text><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'>We could estimate the potential carbon products and benefits (or costs) from TLUDs using known data from TLUD efficiency tests and real examples. For example, what impact could a TLUD have on the scenario tested in the work in Malawi that was posted yesterday by Pam Jagger?<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'>“Similarly, the average amount of fuelwood collected was estimated at 1878 kg per year per household, or 187,800 kg of fuelwood per year per village. We relate the fuelwood use in kilograms to hectares to better quantify the regional forest impact. From the rural exposure monitoring data set, we find the average moisture content of the fuel (woody miombo biomass) to be 10%. Beginning with the baseline fuelwood use of 187,800 kg of fuelwood per year per village, if we assume a 10% moisture content, the baseline fuelwood is equivalent to 170,700 kg of dry fuelwood. We assume that dry mass can be converted to carbon mass using 47%C (Ryan et al., 2011), resulting in 80,240 kgC per year per village. A study of carbon stocks in miombo woodland in Mozambique found that woody biomass totaled 33.3 tC/ha (Ryan et al., 2011). If we assume similar composition of woodland, we find that the baseline case results in a miombo woodland deforestation rate of approximately 2.41 ha per year per village.”<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'>What impact could a TLUD have on 1878 kg/household per year? How much biochar/charcoal would be produced and at what value? <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'>Health Alert: Reading Pam’s paper could raise Nikhil’s blood pressure. : - )<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'>Tom<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><b>From:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Stoves [<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org"><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a>]<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b><a href="mailto:kchisholm@seaside.ns.ca"><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>kchisholm@seaside.ns.ca</span></a><br><b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Friday, September 15, 2017 10:00 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com"><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>biochar@yahoogroups.com</span></a>;<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:ndesai@alum.mit.edu"><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>ndesai@alum.mit.edu</span></a>; 'Discussion of biomass'<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org></span></a><br><b>Cc:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:hsmclaughlin@verizon.net"><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>hsmclaughlin@verizon.net</span></a><br><b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re: [Stoves] Calculating cooking costs and char costs ----Re: [biochar] Where to discuss STOVES AND CARBON offsets and drawdown<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'>Hi Paul</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><b>From:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com"><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>biochar@yahoogroups.com</span></a><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>[<a href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com"><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com</span></a>]<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br><b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Friday, September 15, 2017 11:03 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com"><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>biochar@yahoogroups.com</span></a>;<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:ndesai@alum.mit.edu"><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>ndesai@alum.mit.edu</span></a>; 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves' <<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a>><br><b>Cc:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>'Hugh McLaughlin' <<a href="mailto:hsmclaughlin@verizon.net"><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>hsmclaughlin@verizon.net</span></a>><br><b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re: [Stoves] Calculating cooking costs and char costs ----Re: [biochar] Where to discuss STOVES AND CARBON offsets and drawdown<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p><div id=ygrp-mlmsg><div id=ygrp-msg><div id=ygrp-text><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Kevin,</span><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-left:3.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'>Note also that the purpose of this particular Spread Sheet was to give an approximate value to char produced by TLUD’s.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>In that regard, char value is a function of char yield and biomass fuel cost. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'># Yes.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'> The number of meals cooked would not then an issue, and the spreadsheet contains cells that are derived but are not part of the "solution." Too much "extra" that is not needed in the spreadsheet.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'># The way the spread sheet really works is to determine net available energy, (after drying losses) and then proportions the fuel cost between the energy in the TLUD fuel gas, and the energy in the char. I added the “number of meals” so that the Cook would see the cost consequences of burning the char as an additional source of energy, to reduce the need to purchase additional fuel. However, you are quite right… it is not really necessary to know the number of meals cooked per unit of fuel, to determine the value of char.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'># The way the spread sheet is set up now, all the energy loss associated with water in the incoming fuel is credited to the TLUD gas stream. The result is a (slightly) overstated cost for the energy content of the TLUD gas, and a (slightly) understated cost of the char. The error could be significant with significantly higher moisture content of the incoming wood fuel.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'><br><br>If the purpose is to bring in also the number of meals, then there is more work to be done. Forexample, it is not as simple as the assumption that energy needed per meal served would be the same for cooking with the pyrolytic gases as for cooking with the charcoal fuel. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'># Agreed. However, the spread sheet does appear to give a good “initial value for char” in relation to the value of carbon credit payments. If wood fuel costs were much lower, and/or carbon credit payments were much higher, then a more rigorous treatment would be required to determine the “Break Even Carbon Credit Payment more accurately.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Therefore the spreadsheet contains too few actual "variables", most of which could be strongly impacted by the socio-cultural context. This would be not enough "extra" that should be put into the spreadsheet.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'># A more rigorous spread sheet could indeed be built, but it would require a number of additional inputs. Such additional inputs would include:</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'>* Wood analysis</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'>* Calorific value</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'>* Moisture content</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'>* Energy content of the pyrolytic gas stream</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'>* Pyrolytic gas combustion efficiency</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'>* Pyrolytic gas stove efficiency</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'>* Accurate charcoal yield</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'>* Calorific value of charcoal</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'>* Charcoal combustion efficiency</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'>* Charcoal stove efficiency</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'>* Etc.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'><br>You have made your point that it is possible that the value of the char from a TLUD stove might be greater if burned than if sequestered into soil as biochar. This can be discussed in general terms. It will not be resolved with a refined quantitative / financial analysis. The question remains open: How is the value of char from a more efficient cookstove (TLUD vs 3-stone) to be judged?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'># Actually, I would suggest that the present spread sheet would be an excellent tool for determining the value of char from a TLUD, a 3-Stone Fire, or other cooking system. You could set up a very simple test cooking rice sufficient for say 4 meals, and measure the wood required, and the charcoal recovered. Knowing the cost of the fuel per unit, the data could be entered into the spread sheet to give a value for the char produced from various stove systems.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'>Best wishes,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'>Kevin</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'><br><br>Paul<br><br></span><o:p></o:p></p><pre style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'><span lang=FR style='font-size:11.0pt'>Email: </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu"><span lang=FR>psanders@ilstu.edu</span></a></span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span lang=FR style='font-size:11.0pt'>Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072</span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com/">www.drtlud.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></pre><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>On 9/15/2017 5:35 PM,<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:kchisholm@seaside.ns.ca"><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>kchisholm@seaside.ns.ca</span></a><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>[biochar] wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-left:3.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p><div id=ygrp-text><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'>Hi Nikhil</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'>I used the term “mealtime” more in the context of a “cooking session”. Clearly, a number of meals would be required at “mealtime.”</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'>Knowing the number of meals prepared at the “mealtime”, one can then determine the wood consumption per meal, and ultimately, the “energy per meal.”</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'>Note also that the “energy per meal” must be used with caution, in that it will vary with the nature of the meal. For example, a meal of rice and fish could require a different cooking time than when simmering a stew or boiling eggs.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'>Note also that the purpose of this particular Spread Sheet was to give an approximate value to char produced by TLUD’s. Would you have any further comments or suggestions in how to improve it in this regard?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'>Thanks, and Best wishes,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'>Kevin</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><b>From:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Nikhil Desai [<a href="mailto:pienergy2008@gmail.com"><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>mailto:pienergy2008@gmail.com</span></a>]<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br><b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Friday, September 15, 2017 6:09 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org></span></a><br><b>Cc:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:kchisholm@seaside.ns.ca"><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>kchisholm@seaside.ns.ca</span></a>; biochar<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com"><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><biochar@yahoogroups.com></span></a>; Hugh McLaughlin<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:hsmclaughlin@verizon.net"><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><hsmclaughlin@verizon.net></span></a><br><b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re: [Stoves] Calculating cooking costs and char costs ----Re: [biochar] Where to discuss STOVES AND CARBON offsets and drawdown<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Paul: <br><br>Two comments: <br><br>1. If "mealtime" refers to a day (and 3 cooked meals per day), 1 kg wood per day seems to be on the low side, unless it is per capita. I remember that a "rule of thumb" (or "expert estimate") back when people prepared national energy balances, was "1-2 kg wood<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><u>per capita</u><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>per day". Of course, the gross input per family depends on many factors including efficiency, types of cooking tasks, age/sex composition, ambient temperature and wind patterns, and cook's whims; however, if the per family net energy per mealtime is 3.7 kWht or 5,750 Btu, I suspect the family may be too poor to afford enough food from scratch - relying on more fresh vegetables or uncooked materials or on partially prepared purchased food. <br><br>This single number -- how much useful (net) energy per family per year is "required" on average in a given context - would seem to be very useful, with some assumed efficiencies, for computations of emissions and deforestation or loads carried on heads or backs. But I have seen very few such attempts. Any thoughts? I will dig up some GACC studies. <br><br>2. The way the spreadsheet is set up, the financial cost of fuelwood is the most critical assumed parameter for the breakeven carbon credit value (CCV). Only at $0.02/kg cost of high-quality wood does the CCV come close to today's price in the EU ETS. Since the supply curves for both wood and labor are likely to at least somewhat upward sloping, the question becomes, what is the potential - in global terms - for biochar to compete with other CDR options? <br><br>It would seem that biochar for CDR and charmaking for local sales (as fuel) are two entirely separate markets and will probably remain that way for a long while. <br><br>Does anybody have a good number for useful cooking energy per household per year? <br><br>Nikhil<br><br> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 10:53 PM, Paul Anderson <<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank"><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>psanders@ilstu.edu</span></a>> wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Kevin,<br><br>Thanks for the spreadsheet. This is an interesting situation where calculated numbers are not matching with some human activities about the value of charcoal.<br><br>This discussion is only with the Biochar group, so I am adding the Stoves Listserv and attaching the spreadsheet.<br><br>Notes;<br><br>The use of BTU/LB in columns H and I should be in the green (calculated) values and the corresponding metric units (which you provide) should be the yellow variables that can be entered. Please.<br><br>I notice that changes in the Value of unburned char/kg (C23 ) is essentially linked to the cost of fuel wood (C5) , and therefore virtually dictate the conclusion of carbon credit pricing needed (C28 ). So, the price stays quite high.<br><br>****************<br>A. Consider the case of the cook who has no real use for the char, which means that the cost of fuel is 100% allocated to the cooking, and the resultant char has zero value. To that cook there is no trade-off about char being used for cooking other meals. Selling the char is "pure profit", whether it is a calculated value of $0.16/kg (as in C26) or merely $0.12/kg as in Deganga, India, or only $0.08/kg which is still better than nothing.<br><br>B. Current "traditional" cooking with charcoal that is produced by generally inefficient "traditional" char-making methods would have a char yield (C6) of between 10% (burning too much to ash) and 25% (leaving volatiles in the char, or even some incomplete pyrolysis/torrification). <span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br><br>C. But for those people who produce traditional char, the "cost of fuel wood" (C5) could be as low as zero (illegal cutting or destructive cutting) or some notional value of the time spent to make the charcoal. <span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br><br>Others need to comment also. <span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br><br>Paul<br><br><br></span><o:p></o:p></p><pre style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'><span lang=FR style='font-size:11.0pt'>Email: </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank"><span lang=FR>psanders@ilstu.edu</span></a></span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span lang=FR style='font-size:11.0pt'>Skype: paultlud Phone: </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><a href="tel:%28309%29%20452-7072" target="_blank"><span lang=FR>+1-309-452-7072</span></a></span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com/" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a> </span><o:p></o:p></pre><blockquote style='margin-left:3.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335ygrp-mlmsg"><div id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335ygrp-msg"><div id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335ygrp-text"><pre style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Pa </span><o:p></o:p></pre><blockquote style='margin-left:3.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><b>From:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'><a href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>biochar@yahoogroups.com</span></a></span><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>[<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'><a href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com</span></a></span>]<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br><b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Monday, September 11, 2017 4:02 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Hugh McLaughlin<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'><a href="mailto:hsmclaughlin@verizon.net" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><hsmclaughlin@verizon.net></span></a></span>;<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'><a href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>biochar@yahoogroups.com</span></a></span><br><b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re: [biochar] Where to discuss STOVES AND CARBON offsets and drawdown<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335ygrp-mlmsg"><div id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335ygrp-msg"><div id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335ygrp-text"><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Hugh and Kevin,<br><br>First to Hugh: Why do you write<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-left:3.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>$0.10/kg is a more reasonable assumption.</span><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>when that is what Kevin actually said. <span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br><br>Then to Kevin: Actually, it the char yield is 20% per kg of fuel (closer to actual than is 25% or 30%), then the number becomes<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='color:#1F497D'>$US 250 per tonne of char = $US250/3.42 = $US 73.10 per tonne of CO2 equivalent.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'><br><br>To all: As reported in the Deganga Case Study (page 4, 3rd paragraph), in that case study the people<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>were actually paying US$0.075 per kg of firewood.</b> And they burn 3 to 4 kg per day (which is less than half of baseline fuel consumption). Note: 4 kg of firewood at 20% char yield would be about 0.8 kg of char per day (matches the measured quantities of char purchased from the households).<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br><br>And they were receiving payment of $0.12 per kg of char via the "Earn while you cook" arrangements (page 4, second paragraph from the bottom of the page), which would be $0.04 per 0.3 kg (just citing Kevin's initial number for some comparison) or $0.024 per 0.2 kg (the approximate actual char production per day of cooking.).<br><br>Can we use some of these above numbers and send a revised statement, please? <span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br><br>And if the point is still</span><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-left:3.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>it is more advantageous for the Cook to burn it [the char] for another meal.</span><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>then why are the people so delighted with the charcoal buyback? ( ?? cultural reasons??? such as not having a tradition of cooking with charcoal at the household level (true) ... or their perception of the value of a few cents is greater than their perception of the expense of the cooking task? ... or some other reason(s) ???<br><br>All are welcome to comment, please.<br><br>Paul<br><br></span><o:p></o:p></p><pre style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'><span lang=FR style='font-size:11.0pt'>Email: </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank"><span lang=FR>psanders@ilstu.edu</span></a></span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span lang=FR style='font-size:11.0pt'>Skype: paultlud Phone: </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><a href="tel:%28309%29%20452-7072" target="_blank"><span lang=FR>+1-309-452-7072</span></a></span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com/" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></pre><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>On 9/11/2017 1:22 PM, Hugh McLaughlin wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-left:3.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1505143290346_69115"><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>ERRATA: $10/tonne is $0.01/kg.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1505143290346_69114"><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1505143290346_69117"><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>If there is any transportation, $100/tonne or the basis used for the calculation: $0.10/kg is a more reasonable assumption.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1505143290346_69118"><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1505143290346_69113"><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Hugh McLaughlin, PhD, PE</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>CTO -<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="http://nextchar.com/">NextChar.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>On Monday, September 11, 2017 2:03 PM,<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'><a href="mailto:kchisholm@seaside.ns.ca[biochar]" target="_blank"><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>"kchisholm@seaside.ns.ca [biochar]"</span></a></span><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'><a href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank"><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><biochar@yahoogroups.com></span></a></span><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335yiv1179526857"><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p><div id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335yiv1179526857ygrp-mlmsg"><div id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335yiv1179526857ygrp-msg"><div id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335yiv1179526857ygrp-text"><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Hi Paul</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Assume that such fuelwood costs $US10 per tonne, or $US.10 per kg.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Assume that 1 kg of such wood is “burned” in a TLUD, to cook a meal, and that there is .25 kg char yield.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Assume also that the char could be used to cook a second meal.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>The cost of fuel per meal is thus $US.10, if the char is not used for cooking, OR, it is $US.05 if the char is subsequently used to cook a second meal.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Thus, if somebody gave the Cook $US.05 for the .3 kg of char, the Cook could be “revenue neutral”.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Thus, the cost of “Carbon Credits” that reaches the actual Cook should be a minimum of $US.05/.3 kg char = $US.167 per kg char, or $US167 per tonne char = $US167/3.42 = approximately $US48.80 per tonne of CO2 equivalent.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>CONCLUSION: With the costing and performance assumptions shown above, unless the Cook gets more than the equivalent of $US48.80 per tonne CO2 carbon credits, it is not advantageous for the Cook to “sell” the char… it is more advantageous for the Cook to burn it for another meal.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Does this make sense to you?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Best wishes,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Kevin</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><b><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>From:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'><a href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>biochar@yahoogroups.com</span></a></span><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span></span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>[</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'><a href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com</span></a></span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>]<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br><b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Monday, September 11, 2017 11:53 AM<br><b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'><a href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>biochar@yahoogroups.com</span></a></span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>; Doc Anderson<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'><a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><psanders@ilstu.edu></span></a></span><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><br><b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re: [biochar] Where to discuss STOVES AND CARBON offsets and drawdown</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335yiv1179526857ygrp-mlmsg"><div id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335yiv1179526857ygrp-msg"><div id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335yiv1179526857ygrp-text"><div style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Dear Shengar,<br><br>Thank you for the input.<br><br>World figures are that about 3 billion persons have meals prepared on solid fuel (mostly biomass). Family size (especially HOUSEHOLD size, referring to the number of people who eat together) should be 5 or 6, which would put the number of households between 600 million and 500 million. Those are the numbers that I prefer to use.<br><br>I agree with nearly a kilo of char produced per day per TLUD stove (confirmed in Deganga, India, study). 365 days would yield about a third of on ton of char per household. 3 household become a ton/yr. 30,000 HH would be 10,000 tons. 300,000,000 HH (about half of the needed cookstoves) would be 100,000,000 tons.<br><br>So it would take 10 years to reach one GIGA ton, which is 1,000,000,000 tons. (Please check my math.)<br><br>In the Drawdown project, the time period is 2020 to2050, which is 3 decade, or "potentially" 3 gigatons of char sequestration.<br><br>3 GT is only 1/5th of the GT calculated for ALL cookstoves, and over 3 times more that what was calcualted for ALL biochar by 2050. Clearly there is more to the drawdown calculations than the simple numbers above.<br><br>Paul</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><pre style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a></span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>Skype: paultlud Phone: <a href="tel:%28309%29%20452-7072" target="_blank">+1-309-452-7072</a></span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com/" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></pre><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>On 9/11/2017 1:27 AM, shengar<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:shengar@aol.com" target="_blank"><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>shengar@aol.com</span></a></span><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue",serif'> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue",serif'>[biochar] wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><blockquote style='margin-left:3.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335yiv1179526857ygrp-text"><div id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335yiv1179526857edo-message"><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>The ballpark numbers I think Albert Bates has crunched but I play with these numbers:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>About 1 billion households cook with biomass, so if all had TLUDs, producing about a kilo per day of biochar that would be some one million tons per day, 365 million tons per year, a gigaton of CO2 every 3 years. (accounting for other greenhouse gas reductions when biochar is put in soil)<br>And increased rates of soil carbon sequestration</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335yiv1179526857edo-original"><div><blockquote style='margin-left:3.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335yiv1179526857edo-meta"><div style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>On Sep 10, 2017 at 9:29 AM, <<a href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank"><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Paul Anderson psanders@ilstu.edu [biochar]</span></a>> wrote:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div id="m_3706110924707821985m_-7179329359497387110gmail-m_-5087586547651377335yiv1179526857ygrp-text"><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Dear Stovers and Biochar folk,<br><br>The financial part of advancing the TLUD stove situation (IMO) keeps coming back to the value of carbon offsets generated. But that topic is too thinly related to the purpose of the Stoves Listserv or the Biochar Listserve. So I will sending this message.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br><br>The<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><u>stoves-related carbon-issues discussion<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></u>(generating carbon credits, global drawdown, etc) need discussion. So I request some assistance to find where this can be discussed. Does such a place already exist?<br><br>Also, who among us want to be into that OTHER discussion? Paul, Ron, and who else?<br><br>Paul</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><pre style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>-- </span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD</span><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='background:white'><span lang=FR style='font-size:11.0pt'>Email: </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank"><span lang=FR>psanders@ilstu.edu</span></a></span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span lang=FR style='font-size:11.0pt'>Skype: paultlud Phone: </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt'><a href="tel:%28309%29%20452-7072" target="_blank"><span lang=FR>+1-309-452-7072</span></a></span><span lang=FR><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt'>Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com/" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></pre></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'><br>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank"><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank"><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank"><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</span></a><br><br></span><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br><span style='background:white'>_______________________________________________</span><br><span style='background:white'>Stoves mailing list</span><br><br><span style='background:white'>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address</span><br></span><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;background:white'>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br><br><span style='background:white'>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page</span><br></span><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;background:white'>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br><br><span style='background:white'>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:</span><br></span><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/"><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;background:white'>http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'>Thanks</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'>Frank</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'>Frank Shields</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'>Gabilan Laboratory</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'>Keith Day Company, Inc.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'>1091 Madison Lane</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'>Salinas, CA 93907</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'>(831) 246-0417 cell</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'>(831) 771-0126 office</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'><a href="mailto:franke@cruzio.com">franke@cruzio.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:white'>__._,_.___<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style='margin-top:7.5pt' id=fromDMARC><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=5 width="100%" noshade style='color:#E3E3E3' align=center></div><p class=MsoNormal>Posted by: "Mark E. Ludlow" <<a href="mailto:mark@ludlow.com">mark@ludlow.com</a>> <o:p></o:p></p><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=5 width="100%" noshade style='color:#E3E3E3' align=center></div></div><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=5 cellpadding=0><tr><td style='padding:5.25pt 3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:7.5pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:7.5pt;margin-left:0in'><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2D50FD'><a href="https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/biochar/conversations/messages/22186;_ylc=X3oDMTJycDBqNzk3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRtc2dJZAMyMjE4NgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzE1MDU2MTcxNDU-?act=reply&messageNum=22186"><span style='color:#2D50FD;text-decoration:none'>Reply via web post</span></a> <o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:7.5pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:7.5pt;margin-left:0in'><span style='color:#2D50FD'>•<o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td style='padding:5.25pt 3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:7.5pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:7.5pt;margin-left:0in'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2D50FD'><a href="mailto:mark@ludlow.com?subject=RE%3A%20%5BStoves%5D%20Calculating%20cooking%20costs%20and%20char%20costs%20----Re%3A%20%5Bbiochar%5D%20Where%20to%20discuss%20STOVES%20AND%20CARBON%20offsets%20and%20drawdown"><span style='color:#2D50FD;text-decoration:none'>Reply to sender </span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:7.5pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:7.5pt;margin-left:0in'><span style='color:#2D50FD'>•<o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td style='padding:5.25pt 3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:7.5pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:7.5pt;margin-left:0in'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2D50FD'><a href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com?subject=RE%3A%20%5BStoves%5D%20Calculating%20cooking%20costs%20and%20char%20costs%20----Re%3A%20%5Bbiochar%5D%20Where%20to%20discuss%20STOVES%20AND%20CARBON%20offsets%20and%20drawdown"><span style='color:#2D50FD;text-decoration:none'>Reply to group </span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:7.5pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:7.5pt;margin-left:0in'><span style='color:#2D50FD'>•<o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td style='padding:5.25pt 3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:7.5pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:7.5pt;margin-left:0in'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2D50FD'><a href="https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/biochar/conversations/newtopic;_ylc=X3oDMTJmMDdhbmpoBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzE1MDU2MTcxNDU-"><span style='color:#2D50FD;text-decoration:none'>Start a New Topic</span></a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:7.5pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:7.5pt;margin-left:0in'><span style='color:#2D50FD'>•<o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td style='padding:5.25pt 3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:7.5pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:7.5pt;margin-left:0in'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2D50FD'><a href="https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/biochar/conversations/topics/22173;_ylc=X3oDMTM3OWZuNW8wBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRtc2dJZAMyMjE4NgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzE1MDU2MTcxNDUEdHBjSWQDMjIxNzM-"><span style='color:#2D50FD;text-decoration:none'>Messages in this topic</span></a> (8) <o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr></table><div id=megaphoneModule><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=5 width="100%" noshade style='color:#E3E3E3' align=center></div><div><div style='margin-bottom:7.5pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><img border=0 width=82 height=82 style='width:.8541in;height:.8541in' id="_x0000_i1037" src="https://s.yimg.com/ru/static/images/yg/img/megaphone/1464031581_phpFA8bON" alt="https://s.yimg.com/ru/static/images/yg/img/megaphone/1464031581_phpFA8bON"><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><a name="sub_url"></a><a href="https://yho.com/1wwmgg" target="_blank"><span style='mso-bookmark:sub_url'><span style='font-size:11.5pt;text-decoration:none'>Have you tried the highest rated email app?</span></span><span style='mso-bookmark:sub_url'></span></a><span style='mso-bookmark:sub_url'></span> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'>With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. 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