<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
Philip, Tom and all,<br>
<br>
Philip is mostly correct. Actually wood takes up (has) too much
WEIGHT. Wood has 3 times (or more, if the char is poorly made) the
ENERGY value of charcoal that could come from that char. But it
has about 5 times the DRY weight of the char, plus there can be 20
to 50% moisture content to make the wood even heavier. <br>
<br>
And the charcoal has almost double (30 vs. 16) the energy content
by weight, but char is so much lighter per unit of volume. So the
trucks are buldging upward and sideways with the sacks of charcoal
strapped to them. Weight of charcoal is not a problem for most
transport.<br>
<br>
Apart from the transportation issue, I believe that the appeal of
charcoal is that it does not smoke (not much). CO is invisible and
deadly, but the people learn to cook on the balcony or keep some
air flowing. And it does not turn the bottom of the pots black.<br>
<br>
Charcoal is an attractive fuel. Too bad it is made by processes
that throw away 2/3rds of the energy. (So, let's promote TLUD
stroves and collect the char for sale to the urban folks. Only one
third of the cutting of wood/forest.) <br>
<br>
So, if 100,000 households (mainly in rural or peri-urban areas)
would use TLUDs, the resultant char would equal to the energy needed
for an approximately equal number of households (mainly urban) that
would want to burn charcoal. <br>
<br>
Now that would be FUEL efficiency measured by communities, not by
single stoves.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/24/2017 11:40 AM, Tom Miles wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CBEACD55-56E4-47E1-ADD6-2B1D38AE16AB@trmiles.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<div>That's probably why charcoal use is increasing 5% per year in
SSA compared with wood fuel at 1% per year. <br>
<br>
T R Miles Technical Consultants Inc.
<div><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26,
0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192,
227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77,
128, 180, 0.230469); "></span>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26,
0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192,
227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77,
128, 180, 0.230469); "><a href="mailto:tmiles@trmiles.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">tmiles@trmiles.com</a></span></div>
<div><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26,
0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192,
227, 0.226562); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77,
128, 180, 0.226562);">Sent from mobile. </span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
On Sep 24, 2017, at 8:50 AM, "<a href="mailto:plloyd@mweb.co.za"
moz-do-not-send="true">plloyd@mweb.co.za</a>" <<a
href="mailto:plloyd@mweb.co.za" moz-do-not-send="true">plloyd@mweb.co.za</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Just a thought on Sub Saharan charcoal use. As Africa
urbanizes, so it needs energy to cook. Wood takes up too much
volume, and the roads are primitive. So it makes sense to use
charcoal. A bicycle load will keep ten homes cooking for a
week. <br>
The use of char oal has everything to do with logistics and
nothing to do with the environment.<br>
Philip<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Sent from my Huawei Mobile
<div class="quote" style="line-height: 1.5"><br>
<br>
-------- Original Message --------<br>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] stoves and credits again<br>
From: Nikhil Desai <pienergy2008@gmail.com><br>
To: Ron Larson <rongretlarson@comcast.net><br>
CC: Andrew Heggie <aj.heggie@gmail.com>,Crispin
Pemberton-Pigott <crispinpigott@outlook.com>,Discussion
of biomass cooking stoves <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org><br>
<br>
<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Ron: <br>
<br>
What makes you believe that users of
biomass-fuelled stoves are predominantly
growers (of biomass)? <br>
<br>
Saw the figures for urban charcoal markets in
Sub-Saharan Africa lately? Or looked at
non-household cooking (in my view roughly 50%
of cooking energy consumption worldwide)? <br>
<br>
Nikhil<br>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Sep 21,
2017 at 10:54 PM, Ronal W. Larson <span
dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div>Andrew and list:</div>
<div><span class="">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite"> </blockquote>
<br>
There appears to be a win
win situation here and I
gather there is<br>
still a vast part of
equatorial Africa where
annual burning takes<br>
place. However it brings me
to another reason I like the
idea, though<br>
not the practicalities, of a
householder-subsistance
farmer being paid<br>
a subsidy funded by the
developed world. The trouble
is I have a<br>
parochial view and not a
good worldview of what types
of persons<br>
depend on biomass fuelled
stoves. Are they also
predominantly growers?<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
</span>
<div><span class="m_8387032066972498430Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span><b>[RWL9:
Yes to Andrew’s last question.
I disagree with Andrew calling
himself “parochial” - when he
supports (as do I) the ethics
of <i>“a subsidy funded by the
developed world”.</i></b></div>
<div><b><br>
</b></div>
<div><b><span class="m_8387032066972498430Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span> </b></div>
<b>[RWL10: Agree totally. And I
think this is what will eventually
kill the geoengineering technology
that is often placed ahead of
biochar - BECCS. In BECCS, as
with “clean coal”, the CO2 from
combustion (never pyrolysis) is
placed, as liquid, deep
underground. Major expenses
needed to protect the world’s soil
are not needed for biochar.
Soil quality is closely linked to
carbon content - and biochar does
this with no penalty - while
apparently being the cleanest and
most efficient of all possible
solid-fuel stoves.</b></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><b>`Andrew - thanks for your
above rebuttal to Crispin.</b></div>
<div><b><br>
</b></div>
<div><b>Ron<br>
</b><span class="">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div> </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span></div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org></crispinpigott@outlook.com></aj.heggie@gmail.com></rongretlarson@comcast.net></pienergy2008@gmail.com></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
<span>Stoves mailing list</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address</span><br>
<span><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a></span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web
page</span><br>
<span><a
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a></span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information
see our web site:</span><br>
<span><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a></span><br>
<span></span><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>