<div dir="ltr">Crispin, et al: <br><br>1. You might be interested in a new FAO report - THE CHARCOAL TRANSITION: Greening the charcoal value chain to mitigate climate change and improve local livelihoods.<br>2. Do not forget that with urbanization and economic growth, there is also an increase in waste woods that can be used for charcoaling, as Anand Karve has suggested in this pages for India. <br><br>Computing physical efficiency and "tree saving" is for the birds. That is, CDM, ISO, Gold Standard. <br><br>Despite occasional review and analysis of wood and charcoal issues, the World Bank has done very little to finance investments in charcoal supply chains; see <a href="https://siteresources.worldbank.org/EXTAFRREGTOPENERGY/Resources/717305-1266613906108/BiomassEnergyPaper_WEB_Zoomed75.pdf">Wood-Based Biomass Energy Development for Sub-Saharan Africa</a> (World Bank 2011). I suspect the reason is that such projects take "too much attention" and governments do not wish to use World Bank monies for it. (More in a response to Andrew.) <br><br>Wood cost and quality vary, as do charcoaling operations' size and skill base, cost structures. Keep changing, just that proponents of better biomass stoves have not had the time to collect and analyze SSA charcoal data over the years. Why, Nigeria is a major exporter of charcoal to Europe. See <a href="https://www.earnbase.com/5-good-reasons-why-you-should-not-start-exporting-charcoal/">5 Good Reasons You Should Not Start Exporting Charcoal </a> EarnBase 9 August 2016. <br><br>Found a recent computation of charcoal value chain in Kenya and Rwanda - see <a href="http://cleancookstoves.org/resources_files/woodfuels-in-kenya-and.pdf">Woodfuels in Kenya and Rwanda: powering and driving the economy of the rural areas</a> (World Bank, 2011). <br><br>Nikhil</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><font face="georgia, serif">------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>Nikhil Desai</font></div><div><span style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">(US +1) 202 568 5831</span><font face="georgia, serif"><br><i>Skype: nikhildesai888</i><br></font><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Sep 24, 2017 at 5:56 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" target="_blank">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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Dear Paul</div><span class="">
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><span style="line-height:initial">Charcoal is an attractive fuel. Too bad it is made by processes that throw away 2/3rds of the energy. </span></div>
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<span style="line-height:initial">Careful there. Let's calculate and not bandy about convenient numbers. </span></div>
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<span style="line-height:initial">A very good charcoal making operation produces more than 35% of the input dry mass as dry charcoal. That is the minimum to be able to sell in the EU market. </span></div>
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<span style="line-height:initial">Suppose the input fuel is 16 MJ/kg and the output char is 29.5 MJ/kg. The maximum output is about 45% mass but let's go with 40% as a max. At 40% we have 16 MJ input and 29.5*0.4 = 11.8 MJ which is 74% of the original available
energy. This is a lot more than 1/3.</span></div>
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<span style="line-height:initial">In order to reach the nadir of 33% of input, it means the charcoal yield would be no more than 18%. While obviously there are producers making far less than that, but they are not upheld as the way forward. A useless producer
of char is no more useful as a guide than a useless stove. A very modest charcoal operation is going to deliver 30% of the dry mass. That means it delivers 0.3*29.5/16= 55% of the energy available in the original fuel as dry charcoal. </span></div>
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<span style="line-height:initial">Next one must consider the efficiency of a charcoal stove next to the wood stove with which it will be compared. A decent charcoal stove has a fuel efficiency of 50%. Examples include the Anglo Supra and the Anglo Supra Nova
in Indonesia, both low cost and in the public domain. A very good wood stove will be 33% efficient. Most are less. </span></div>
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<span style="line-height:initial">Thus on an available technology basis, not taking the limiting technologies at the cutting edge, we get a wood fuel energy delivered to the pot of 16*0.33= 5.28 MJ and a charcoal fuel energy delivered of 16*0.55*0.5= 4.4
MJ. This is 21.5% less energy delivered, with far less smoke in most cases. </span></div>
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<span style="line-height:initial">How much would the char production have to improve to make them equal opportunity energy carriers?</span></div>
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<span style="line-height:initial">38% char delivered would put them on an equal footing, about what any producer has to attain to sell to the EU market. So it is not uncommon. </span></div>
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<span style="line-height:initial">That number is midway between a low cost Adams charcoal maker and the top line rapid pyrolysis process from Hawaii.
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<span style="line-height:initial">Lastly, before finishing, we should note that charcoaling wood permits the use of fuel that would never be used as 'wood' because of its shape: stumps, roots, knots, notches and burl.
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<span style="line-height:initial">If the same calculation above were to be made based on a whole tree, the charcoal might well come off better on total energy delivered to pots. It is of course a far superior fuel and is widely traded even in rural areas,
as discovered by recent investigations in Sudan. There is a lot of charcoal coming to a neighbourhood near you.
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<span style="line-height:initial">Regards </span></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
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<span style="line-height:initial">Crispin </span></div></font></span><div><div class="h5">
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<div id="m_-639478424222268531_originalContent" style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Philip, Tom and all,<br>
<br>
Philip is mostly correct. Actually wood takes up (has) too much WEIGHT. Wood has 3 times (or more, if the char is poorly made) the ENERGY value of charcoal that could come from that char. But it has about 5 times the DRY weight of the char, plus there can
be 20 to 50% moisture content to make the wood even heavier. <br>
<br>
And the charcoal has almost double (30 vs. 16) the energy content by weight, but char is so much lighter per unit of volume. So the trucks are buldging upward and sideways with the sacks of charcoal strapped to them. Weight of charcoal is not a problem for
most transport.<br>
<br>
Apart from the transportation issue, I believe that the appeal of charcoal is that it does not smoke (not much). CO is invisible and deadly, but the people learn to cook on the balcony or keep some air flowing. And it does not turn the bottom of the pots
black.<br>
<br>
Charcoal is an attractive fuel. Too bad it is made by processes that throw away 2/3rds of the energy. (So, let's promote TLUD stroves and collect the char for sale to the urban folks. Only one third of the cutting of wood/forest.)
<br>
<br>
So, if 100,000 households (mainly in rural or peri-urban areas) would use TLUDs, the resultant char would equal to the energy needed for an approximately equal number of households (mainly urban) that would want to burn charcoal.
<br>
<br>
Now that would be FUEL efficiency measured by communities, not by single stoves.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<pre class="m_-639478424222268531moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="m_-639478424222268531moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: <a href="tel:(309)%20452-7072" value="+13094527072" target="_blank">+1-309-452-7072</a>
Website: <a class="m_-639478424222268531moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div class="m_-639478424222268531moz-cite-prefix">On 9/24/2017 11:40 AM, Tom Miles wrote:<br>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<div>That's probably why charcoal use is increasing 5% per year in SSA compared with wood fuel at 1% per year. <br>
<br>
T R Miles Technical Consultants Inc.
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<div><a href="mailto:tmiles@trmiles.com" target="_blank">tmiles@trmiles.com</a></div>
<div>Sent from mobile. </div>
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On Sep 24, 2017, at 8:50 AM, "<a href="mailto:plloyd@mweb.co.za" target="_blank">plloyd@mweb.co.za</a>" <<a href="mailto:plloyd@mweb.co.za" target="_blank">plloyd@mweb.co.za</a>> wrote:<br>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Just a thought on Sub Saharan charcoal use. As Africa urbanizes, so it needs energy to cook. Wood takes up too much volume, and the roads are primitive. So it makes sense to use charcoal. A bicycle load will keep ten homes cooking for a week.
<br>
The use of char oal has everything to do with logistics and nothing to do with the environment.<br>
Philip<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Sent from my Huawei Mobile
<div class="m_-639478424222268531quote" style="line-height:1.5"><br>
<br>
-------- Original Message --------<br>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] stoves and credits again<br>
From: Nikhil Desai <br>
To: Ron Larson <br>
CC: Andrew Heggie ,Crispin Pemberton-Pigott ,Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
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<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="m_-639478424222268531quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Ron: <br>
<br>
What makes you believe that users of biomass-fuelled stoves are predominantly growers (of biomass)? <br>
<br>
Saw the figures for urban charcoal markets in Sub-Saharan Africa lately? Or looked at non-household cooking (in my view roughly 50% of cooking energy consumption worldwide)? <br>
<br>
Nikhil<br>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 10:54 PM, Ronal W. Larson <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net" target="_blank">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<div>Andrew and list:</div>
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<blockquote type="cite">
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<div>
<blockquote type="cite"> </blockquote>
<br>
There appears to be a win win situation here and I gather there is<br>
still a vast part of equatorial Africa where annual burning takes<br>
place. However it brings me to another reason I like the idea, though<br>
not the practicalities, of a householder-subsistance farmer being paid<br>
a subsidy funded by the developed world. The trouble is I have a<br>
parochial view and not a good worldview of what types of persons<br>
depend on biomass fuelled stoves. Are they also predominantly growers?<br>
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<div><span class="m_-639478424222268531m_8387032066972498430Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"></span><b>[RWL9: Yes to Andrew’s last question. I disagree with Andrew calling himself “parochial” - when he supports (as do I) the ethics of <i>“a subsidy funded by the developed
world”.</i></b></div>
<div><b><br>
</b></div>
<div><b><span class="m_-639478424222268531m_8387032066972498430Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"></span> </b></div>
<b>[RWL10: Agree totally. And I think this is what will eventually kill the geoengineering technology that is often placed ahead of biochar - BECCS. In BECCS, as with “clean coal”, the CO2 from combustion (never pyrolysis) is placed, as liquid, deep underground.
Major expenses needed to protect the world’s soil are not needed for biochar. Soil quality is closely linked to carbon content - and biochar does this with no penalty - while apparently being the cleanest and most efficient of all possible solid-fuel stoves.</b></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><b>`Andrew - thanks for your above rebuttal to Crispin.</b></div>
<div><b><br>
</b></div>
<div><b>Ron<br>
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