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I am going to agree with Ron about the role of char production.<br>
<br>
Todd's stoves with fans are in the category that I call "fan-jet" or
high vortex stoves, along the lines of the Biolite and Philips and
ACE stoves. There are similarities with TLUD-FA stoves, but the
differences dominate. Congratulations that they burn up the char,
assuming that is what you desire. And users can continually drop
in more fuel, which is "trickle feeding"and requires user
attention. TLUDs are batch units.<br>
<br>
About Crispin's notes on Indonesia testing with placing the
produced char on top of the next batch of fuel, I have some
reservations such as overflowing of the char. Also, apart from the
lab testing, is there evidence that the Indonesian cooks are
actually using the stove as it was being used in the lab? <br>
<br>
These stoves can be operated in different ways. How many of each
of those units (Todd's or the Indonesian ones) are in daily use in
households? I hope that the numbers of users are VERY high.
Please send details.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/27/2017 8:18 PM, Todd Albi wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAE3shSNqwsxGHCiRGHr7G+hs=Pin7XTBMnFrGegZQm-Mw2u51g@mail.gmail.com">
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<div dir="ltr">Crispin is correct. Running TLUD's in efficient
cook stoves produce little, if any char. Our most efficient
Super Dragon Fan Stove or Teg Fan Stove, or the Cook Air Fan
grill we offer leave only small amounts of fine ash and have <i>no
value producing char</i>. In fact, one could contend that a
cook stove that produces lots of char is actually impeding both
ventilation and heat transfer to the pot.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Our natural draft Scout trekking gasifier and larger
natural insulated Hunter chimney stove also leave primarily
ash and extremely little char, the fuel is maximized for
cooking, not char production. We'd contend efficient cooking
and making char is two opposing value outcomes.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Todd Albi, SilverFire</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><img src="cid:part1.A0199B27.FD1883A3@ilstu.edu" class=""
width="300" height="408"><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
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<div><br>
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<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 3:30 PM,
Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-CA">
<div class="m_-8780856213232465839WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Dear Ron</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">></span></b><b>No
one would ever want to run a TLUD without
making char. They do horribly in combusting
the char. </b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Our experiences differ. We
received stoves for testing the in CSI Pilot in
Central Java that not only made char then burned
it and the char could be forwarded to the next
replication of the cooking sequence. Stoves that
could do that were, according to the rules of
engagement, tested with a fuel load that
included recycled fuel from a previous burn,
during all evaluations. Fuel consumption is the
requirement for additional fuel sourced outside
the cooking system needed to replicate a cooking
sequence in any of a series of identical
replications, save the first. The ‘save the
first’ refers to stoves such as the TLUD’s that
can burn charcoal, which can use remnant fuel in
the next replication of the test. All
stick-burning stoves were tested in this manner
as well, if they could use partially combusted
fuel.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The lab staff in Yogyakarta,
in spite of the relative simplicity of the lab,
were able to get very tight groupings of test
results even though the ‘forwarded fuel’ varied
a bit in mass and composition.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">It can be argued that the
correct assessment for such a series of test
replicates is to average the entire set into a
single result, rather than ‘averaging’ the
averages produced individually for each test. I
favour this approach as it has a sound logical
basis.</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">PL >><span
style="color:#1f497d">I am not certain of
the physical meaning of the (1-e2)
equation.</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
class="m_-8780856213232465839apple-tab-span">
></span><b>[RWL6: I hope you will try to
learn of its importance. (Essentially important
only in tier rankings.) </b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b> </b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Tier ranks have nothing to do
with that equation. The formula is a postulate
with no sound physical basis. That is why no
examples could be found outside the WBT using it
as an efficiency calculation. Please refer to
Tami’s recent categorical re-statement of her
message earlier this year.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">It is only ‘important’ to those
who wish a 25% efficient stove to be reported as
having an efficiency of 50%. It is more important
that such pseudo-science be stopped in its tracks.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regards<span class="HOEnZb"></span></p>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<p class="MsoNormal">Crispin</p>
</font></span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
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