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Crispin,<br>
<br>
I am sure that Bill and Gordon in New Mexico (and others including
mysel\f) will appreciate more info (details, photos, sizes, etc)
about the continuous TLUDs with bottom feeding. Please try to
provide.<br>
<br>
When mixing in the previously made char into the future batches of
fuel, there are two concerns:<br>
<br>
1. Cannot mix in hot, glowing char (which would ignite low into the
columnof fuel), Therefore must be extinquished, which is an extra
step.<br>
<br>
2. Char from a TLUD at whatever temperature of pyrolysis will
essentially be "inert" material into a next batch to be pyrolyzed at
the same temperature. No gain. Just filling space. [[ But one
exception: created char can pick up some of the volatiles that are
rising through it. Those volatiles would be elegible to be
released for making energy in the second round. As far as I know,
those volatiles would be a very very small percentage of the energy
in the processes. }} So why bother to do it, UNLESS the intention
is to burn the created char (which should not be done in a TLUD).<br>
<br>
I agree that anyone is allowed to test and experiment with any
methods and materials. What we are awaiting are reports of
adoption of methods etc by significant numbers of appropriate users.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/28/2017 10:29 AM, Crispin
Pemberton-Pigott wrote:<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Dear
Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Thanks
for the ideas about char. I want to correct a couple of
impressions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US">></span></b>And users can continually drop
in more fuel, which is "trickle feeding"and requires user
attention. TLUDs are batch units.<span
style="color:windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">This is only
true some of the time. TLUD burners are frequently (often,
not rarely) built at small industrial scale using batch-push
feeding from below. I was surprised to find that the Stove
Development Centre in Ulaanbaatar has been making a number
of these units – the surprise coming from the fact that none
of the domestic candidate stoves had used this system. I saw
one being repaired in August. Being a TLUD does not mean it
has to be a single batch unit.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">The char or
charred fuel is not placed on top of the fresh fuel – it is
mixed in and forms part of the fuel. I don’t know what the
upper limits of content are, I believe for different stoves
there are different limits. The HTP spreadsheet was modified
in 2013 or so to accommodate this sort of ‘limited ability
to recycle processed fuel’ and still produce the correct ‘as
burned’ (AB) fuel analysis that forms the basis of the
chemical mass balance calculation.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Next, with
reference to the recycling of fuel from one burn to the
next:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">></span>Also,
apart from the lab testing, is there evidence that the
Indonesian cooks are actually using the stove as it was being
used in the lab?
<span style="color:windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">That is not
up to the lab performing the test. If a manufacturer comes
out with a novel method of construction and operation, it is
up to the lab to test it as designed, not to speculate about
home someone in future might use it. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">For a <i>project</i>
it makes a difference and a project might not adopt a stove
for promotion if the cultural conflicts with how it works.
In short, the testing does not stand in the way of
innovation. There is a clear separation between the
invention and testing of products from the projects that may
or may not use them. I realise that there has been a
confabulation of projects and test protocols in the past.
That should end. A test method should be technology neutral.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">That said, a
test protocol specific to a project is also valid. On
project I was associated with required that the stoves be
mis-operated and the performance reported because ‘obvious
misuse’ is an accepted risk and we wanted to know the
implications.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<span style="color:windowtext">></span>These stoves can be
operated in different ways.
<span style="color:windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Yes, but it
would be good if you did not limit the operation of a TLUD
to a batch or trickle-feed mode. There are other products
around. TLUD coal and pellet and briquette burners are quite
common. I expect one day the TLUD promoters will accept this
as a standard operating technique because it overcomes
several of the attested shortcomings of batch-loaded stoves.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">></span>How
many of each of those units (Todd's or the Indonesian ones)
are in daily use in households? I hope that the numbers of
users are VERY high. Please send details.<span
style="color:windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">I am not
sure stoves are listed by operating mode. Those that are
claimed to be operating as TLUDs with recycled fuel could be
identified by brand and the numbers (probably) extracted
from the CSI Indonesia aggregated sales numbers. It is in
the thousands I suppose. I am not the one to ask.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Crispin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<br>
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