<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">List, cc Scott and Gordon</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>1. Re charcrete, the postulated/possible advantage in replacing wood chips with charcoal, is that it is lighter and (may be) stronger. Down the road there could be carbon credits. I’m still hoping someone out there is able to give it a try.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>2. Re zerosion, don’t try to look it up by googling; has over weird meanings. When I googled for the combination “Gordon West zerosion”, I got these hits first:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><a href="http://www.gwpaz.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/November-2012-Newsletter.pdf" class="">http://www.gwpaz.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/November-2012-Newsletter.pdf</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><a href="http://www.gilacommunity.net/viewtopic.php?t=14477" class="">http://www.gilacommunity.net/viewtopic.php?t=14477</a> (much more on chipcrete)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">and about a half-dozen more on the first two pages. These show the connection between the two names and different (successful) applications.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>3, The issue for this list is - can there be stove occasions where replacing paper or chips with char gives a better product (and this could include Zerosion - since we generally want [stove output] char in the ground).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>So thanks to Scott for the follow-up. I don’t know the meaning of the III and VI - but I’m sure continuous TLUDs and other char-making devices I previously said a bit about have similar Roman numeral identifiers.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>I am sure Gordon is ready and willing to answer questions on either the former products or the potential charcrete. Note Gordon’s knowledge on some cement types I have never heard of - in the second URL above.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>This response has nothing to do with Gordon’s question today on co-combusting char and wood - which I will comment on soon.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Ron</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Sep 28, 2017, at 6:45 PM, Scott Zager <<a href="mailto:scott.zager@wildlands.biz" class="">scott.zager@wildlands.biz</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">Ron et al.:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">Please see photo links below to see demonstrations of the potential uses for charcrete in building materials and erosion control;<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">III. Charcrete:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: blue;" class=""><a href="https://photos.app.goo.gl/3IxpdKMNL8UZmoIN2" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://photos.app.goo.gl/3IxpdKMNL8UZmoIN2</a></span><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class=""> (substitute Biochar for woodchips illustrated in photo)<span style="color: blue;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: blue;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">VI. Zerosion:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: blue;" class=""><a href="https://photos.app.goo.gl/n0gixHvOnwMUt1HB2" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://photos.app.goo.gl/n0gixHvOnwMUt1HB2</a><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: blue;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">Scott C. Zager, Plant Ecologist<o:p class=""></o:p></b></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">Wildlands Ecological Services<o:p class=""></o:p></b></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">P.O. Box 305<o:p class=""></o:p></b></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">Silver City, NM 88062-0305<o:p class=""></o:p></b></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">Business cell: (651) 261-2398<o:p class=""></o:p></b></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">Email:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:scott.zager@wildlands.biz" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">scott.zager@wildlands.biz</a><o:p class=""></o:p></b></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class=""><a href="x-msg://249/www.linkedin.com/in/scottzagerwildlands/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">www.linkedin.com/in/scottzagerwildlands/</a><o:p class=""></o:p></span></b></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: 'Calibri Light', sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></b></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: 'Calibri Light', sans-serif;" class="">There are over 20,000 species of edible plants in the world. However, just 20 species provide 90% of human food. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><sup class="">8</sup>“<a href="http://www.pfaf.org/user/Default.aspx" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">Plants for a Future</a>.”<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">PFAF</i>. 2012. Accessed: May 17, 2015. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.pfaf.org/user/Default.aspx" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">http://www.pfaf.org/user/Default.aspx</a><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Stoves [<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Ronal W. Larson<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Thursday, September 28, 2017 6:23 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Discussion of biomass <<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>>; Jock Gill <<a href="mailto:jock@jockgill.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">jock@jockgill.com</a>><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Stoves] The goals of my TLUD work<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Jock, cc list, Bill Knauss and Gordon West<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>A bit ago, I told a little of my stove-oriented trip to Silver City, New Mexico and to a small town in Mexico. That was mostly on a continuous TLUD. I don’t think I mentioned (or mentioned much) an idea for a new (to me) potential stove material. The new potential material is (for now) called “charcrete” (maybe with a hyphen: char-crete”). <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>This idea is based on many years of Bill and Gordon working with a similar material called “papercrete”. I am writing this with zero experience but a few hours of conversation with Gordon and Bill and I have three of these papercrete blocks. To the best of our knowledge - no-one has made one with the purpose of using the material in a stove. <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Of course the three of us are thinking TLUDs, but it should/could be more generally applicable. The reason we see potential promise is having seen how well papercrete holds up in an intense fire. <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>The reasons for thinking char could replace paper are: <o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>a. The porous nature of char makes it a better insulator and lighter weight.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>b. It is likely more available globally, near the need, than paper<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>c. It is possible that the pressure needed for papercrete blocks may not be needed for charcrete blocks.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>d. Charcoal in other building applications have demonstrated improved economics and strength.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>e. The papercrete blocks have stood up well under extreme fire conditions (we can forward a video clip).<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>f. There are many ways that this could be carried out commercially - all the way to self-manufacture of a stove - a common practice around the world<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>g. The diameter and heights can be readily varied to fit the needs of all types of families. Number 10 cans are great but not for a variety of family sizes.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>One would expect some combustion of the charred chips under long term use. But much of the strength can remain - both where char has disappeared but cement remains and for the majority of the block where the char is expected (cross-your-fingers) to remain.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>I believe this could be a patentable idea - but Bill and Gordon (like Jock) think it more important to get people working on it. So this is to ask all who can to try to make a block or two (if not a full stove).. There are many types of cement and many types of charred chips. We can supply some ideas for number, location, and sizes of the needed holes for both primary and secondary air.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>The reason for introducing this via responding to Jock’s email is to be able to add a note on the potential for charcrete on each of Jock’s dozen items below - and because it seems likely Jock will see some potential AND because we like Jock’s overall educational motivation.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">see more below.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">On Sep 28, 2017, at 9:30 AM, Jock Gill <<a href="mailto:jock@jockgill.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">jock@jockgill.com</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Here are the basic goals I have for my TLUD development work:<br class=""><br class="">1. Achieve as long a period of blue flames as possible;<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></blockquote><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Probably NO change, as this seems to be a function of other than the main material.<br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><br class="">2. Look like a gas stove burner - aspirational;<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></blockquote><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Maybe about the same as with any body material.<br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><br class="">3. Be very low cost so teachers can afford to make it;<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></blockquote><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Not as good as a # 10 can in this country - but maybe better in many countries.<br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><br class="">4. Get pyrolysis and Biochar into schools;<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></blockquote><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Could be satisfactory - especially as it might be safer.<br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><br class="">5. Use the heat from the burning gases as completely as possible;<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></blockquote><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Could have considerably lower radial losses<br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><br class="">6. As few and as simple parts as possible;<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></blockquote><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Perhaps only one part.<br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><br class="">7. Easy and safe construction with simple tools;<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></blockquote><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Could be essentially no tools.<br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><br class="">8. No metal cutting or sharp edges;<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></blockquote><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>None, maybe the strongest difference<br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><br class="">9. Best run time with the maximum yield of high quality charcoal;<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></blockquote><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Possibly true (because of good insulation)<br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><br class="">10. A clean process that has minimal negative impacts;<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></blockquote><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Maybe.<br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><br class="">11. Support Drawdown, Regenerative Agriculture, and The Circular Economy;<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></blockquote><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Same as any TLUD<br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><br class="">12. An attractive package that invites use.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></blockquote><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Maybe. Can be highly individualistic.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">Added<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">13. Least first cost and long life - maybe possible<br class=""><br class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><br class="">Biomass, Thermal energy and Carbon are too valuable to waste.<br class=""><br class="">What did I miss? Of course others will have different sets of goals. How much overlap will there be?<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><b class="">RWL: My goal for a charcrete stove is much more towards the most remote villages and homes - where the only material being transported is the cement - and not much per stove. All the char can be readily obtained locally - anywhere in the world.</b><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="apple-tab-span"><b class=""> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><b class="">Any thoughts on this?</b><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class="">Ron</b><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class=""><br class=""><br class=""></b><o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><br class="">Thanks,<br class=""><br class="">Jock<br class=""><br class="">Jock Gill<br class="">P. O. Box 3<br class="">Peacham, VT 05862<br class=""><br class="">Extract CO2 from the atmosphere!<br class=""><br class=""><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">Stoves mailing list<br class=""><br class="">to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br class=""><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br class=""><br class="">to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br class=""><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br class=""><br class="">for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br class=""><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><o:p class=""></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; 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