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Crispin,<br>
<br>
There is much truth in what you have written about so many different
topics. That number of topics raises the question about separation
of topics or unification of topics. My feeling are influenced by
my years working on TLUD stoves.<br>
<br>
1. The decisions should be in relation to assisting the
impoverished people, and not focused n "setting riight" all the
wrongs associated with some toipic, which in this this case is LPG
big business.<br>
<br>
2. The issues about the unfair labling of "dirty solid fuels"
cannot be resolved by placing ALL of the solid fuels together, and
keeping ALL of the biomass stove types together. There are some
biomass stoves that do not deserve to be protected and justified.
Let them drop out. That is essentially saying that the
gasifier stoves (which have a good chance to be finally recognized
as being worthy of consideration) should be disassociated from the
other biomass stoves. I have been saying that in the
"Classification...." document.<br>
<br>
3. Similar rationale about the other solid fuel, meaning coal. I
am not against coal. I believe that there can be (and are) some
stoves / heaters that can burn coal cleanly. But they will need to
be presented separately from the biomass stoves, meaning separate
from the poor-combustion biomass stoves and also from the very good
combustion gasifier stoves. <br>
<br>
4. I consider it a great advancement that Kirk Smith has openned
the door for consideration of the TLUD gasifier stoves (and any
other biomass stoves that can present the data and success stories
that he is seeking). I will not be trying to make a general case
that would include rocket stoves or charcoal stoves or even
gasifiers stoves of coal, and not even the non-TLUD gasifier stoves
("fan-jet" etc.).<br>
<br>
5. The above comments might seem "selfish" or "seff-centered on
TLUDs", but the approach is realistic about getting at least one
type of biomass stove into the "acceptable" category and to disprove
the "dirty solid fuels" statements. Please re-read comment #1 about
the purpose being to help the poor families, not some idealistic
objective. The global need for much improved cookstoves is so
great that there is plenty of room for LPG and the gasifiers of
biomass. I have no desire to tear down the LPG efforts; improve
them, yes. And I certainly would like to show that the target
families are appreciate and desire the TLUD stoves with local
biomass fuels even more than they do the LPG stovers with imported
fossil fuels. But that can only happen when the TLUD stoves are
into the communities in significant numbers. <br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/3/2017 4:46 PM, Crispin
Pemberton-Pigott wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Dear
Paul and All<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">As
people requested, I posed the same challenge to the
biomass stove community this year as I did to the LPG
community in 2014. See attached.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">Why
has he not indicated an equal challenge to coal burning
stove producers? There are something like 500m people who
are dependent on coal and for historical reasons, they
have not received the attention that is their due. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">Instead
of calling upon designers to get with the programme and
produce ultra-low emission burners for every fuel in
popular use, we instead are treated to a litany of
statements such as ‘coal is a dirty fuel’ and ‘coal stove
emissions contain many pollutants as a result of
incomplete combustion’. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">In
the case of Kirk, we hear the same thing about kerosene,
which he calls a ‘dirty fuel’. It one of the cleanest
burning fuels available, with the Japanese developing
burners that have no flame at all!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">If
the plan is to improve health, supposedly by changing
combustors, why not change combustion? Why dump the fuel
needed by millions? This monomaniacal devotion to Big
Propane undermines credibility. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">What
is needed are game-changing technologies in each
sub-sector, right? Well, they are already here. Big
surprise. So if people want to be opinion shapers and
policy advisors they should get with the programme and
keep up with developments in the sectors they mess with.
Continuing to speak and advise and tout as if we lived in
1997 is not helping address the problem at scale.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">I
do not care to triple people’s expenses of cooking and
keeping warm. What a stupid idea. And asking central
governments to ‘subsidise’ it is beyond the pale.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">The
cost of propane is independent of oil, yet we find that
the gas industry is so tied together it might as well be a
monopoly. In that conjoined state, they raise the price of
propane, not on the basis of cost or distribution, but on
the basis of an energy equivalent of oil, its major
competitor. When the oil price went down, what happened
with propane? Oh
<b><i>well</i></b>….it is not tied to the price of oil…<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">It
is worth investigating what happened in May-June 2008 when
there was, suddenly, a global shortage of LPG – the entire
planet ran out of propane without notice, not long after
the oil price was driven into the sky. This ‘shortage’ had
nothing at all to do with availability nor stocks nor
distribution problems. They simply turned off the tap and
squeezed the entire planet. Even OPEC never got close to
such an effective monopoly.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">Lo
and behold, after 6 week, the LPG was suddenly back in
stock all over the world all at once, at a much higher
price. In the meantime the cost of charcoal in poor
countries had jumped about 20% (within about 3 weeks) due
to increased demand from gas users who also had charcoal
stoves in the back room. Once that happened, the LPG was
much more expensive, and the charcoal price remained high
as some people stopped using gas. Big Gas and Big charcoal
were laughing all the way to bank ‘because of the oil
price’.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">Touting
for Big Gas is doing nothing more than expanding the reach
of the
<i>de facto</i> monopoly that already can do what they
want with the price, except this time there are
governments like Indonesia getting involved, paying
billions in subsidies to these companies to make cooking
and heating gas ‘affordable’. Think about it. Who created
the need for subsidies? Big Gas, by raising the price
because the oil price went up (not because there was
excess demand – the market demand is elastic). So we have
a
<i>de facto</i> monopoly supplier pushing to get gas
adopted, subsidised on a vast scale, then they will again
raise the price because of all that new demand. Nice work
if you can get it.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">Put
a limit on it: how many trillions of Dollars should be
taken out of the world economy per year to subsidise LPG
to poor people who can’t afford to cook using it? One?
Three? Eight?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">Every
fuel is needed. Every fuel can be utilised efficiently in
the right circumstances. Blaming a fuel for pollution
while ignoring developments in the sector is a sneaky form
of lying by omission, capitalising on people’s ignorance
of what is possible. Keep them ignorant, take their money.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">Paul:
This is a bigger question than enthusiasm about making
and/or sequestering charcoal. I feel that if you cannot
separate the root argument about treating the energy
carriers with an even hand, you are going to lose all the
other arguments. They are too flakey to catch on yet. In
a similar manner, you cannot expect ‘carbon trading’ to
‘pay for’ innovations that are not economically viable at
scale, right now. The inherent value of a traded ton of
CO2 is nearly nothing. There are just too many simple and
cheap ways to remove CO2 from the air, if that is even
advisable. You should get your message simplified and go
after these guys hammer and tongs. Just because a couple
of people say ‘biomass is needed in the short term while
we ban all other fuels and promote gas to the point all
the countries subsidise it for the poor’ means nothing to
hundreds of millions of people who will simply shut them
out. This gas crowd is not politically powerful, they are
supplicants at the public purse, and the plan is plain
wrong. Don’t kow-tow. If they use a ‘health’ argument, go
after their numbers because they are entirely cooked up.
If they use a ‘deforestation’ argument, point to those
countries who take security of supply seriously. (Clearly
Kenya and Zambia do not.)
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">Crispin
the policy protector<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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