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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>A consideration for assessing the impact of biomass. This should show up in surveys and program monitoring. How did Shell Foundation deal with this a few years ago? Was there a published impact evaluation of the Shell Foundation program in India?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Tom<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><o:p> </o:p></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b>“</b>since the petroleum companies in India are owned by the Government of India, the government is just not interested in promoting stoves using biomass.” A.D.Karve<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>***<br>Dr. A.D. Karve<br><br>Chairman, Samuchit Enviro Tech Pvt Ltd (<a href="http://www.samuchit.com" target="_blank">www.samuchit.com</a>)<br><br>Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 9:56 AM, Paul Anderson <<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal>Stovers, <br><br>Kirk Smith has shared his latest book-chapter. Links to it are below.<br><br>I make several comments, mostly with my focus on "solid biomass fuel stoves":<br><br>1. The content about LPG fuel and stoves in India is quite worthwhile. The chapter is based on 8 solid peer-reviewed writings that are listed in the Endnotes (all written by Smith, often with co-authors.) For that reason, much of what is in the book chapter is very similar to prevous writings. So this chapter brings numerous segments together nicely. <br><br>2. One paragraph (middle of the fourth page of the .pdf document) is about biomass stoves: It says:<br><br>"None of this [about LPG] has, however, affected the budget of the renewable energy ministry, which still runs the national biomass and biogas stove programs. These programmes should still be encouraged,but perhaps now be better focused on the very poorest and more remote populations that will not be reached by LPG in the next decade." ... <br><b>[That is an important concession that Smith clearly makes in many of his writings. And he goes on to say.]</b><br><br>..."These people would still benefit from more efficient stoves that at least lower pollution exposure to some extent."<br><br>[That is a nice concession, but it certainly is not very forceful. To say "... to some extent" could be a justification for mediocre ICS stoves. Perhaps to let the poor folks have Tier 2 and Tier 3 stoves? <br> And then he puts in the kicker, the comment to kill the truly clean burning biomass stoves:]<br><br>..."Unfortunately, however, no biomass stove on the market today is nearly as reliably clean as gas fuels and, thus, cannot be proposed yet as a health measure if gas is available." <br><br>I do note the qualifier words "... if gas is available." The rest of the chapter says that LPG or PNG (piped natural gas) is coming. <br><br>But would Smith say that sentence without the final four words? Will he acknowledge that there are very clean burning stoves that burn biomass? <br><br>This is VERY recent writing, so it is interpreted as Kirk Smith's current positon about the Advanced Modern Clean Cooking Solutions ("MACCS") that include the Woodgas / Micro-gasifier stoves. <br><br>I do not want a fight. I want Kirk Smith to openly and enthusiastically acknowledge the current existence and the increasing progress of VERY CLEAN burning biomass stoves. I have recently written about the need for recognition of the clean burning biomass stoves, with copies reaching Smith and Dean Still and GACC leaders who will be speaking at the coming GACC Forum. <br><br>Let's try to get this clarified beforehand so that we do not need to force discussion in the question and answer times at the Forum presentations. Tht conversation is on-going at the Stoves Listserv. Please share this message with everyone.<br><br>************ Now back to the discussion of Smith's chapter. *************<br><br>3. On page 5 of the .pdf file are these words relating to the sources and abundance of LPG: <br>".... will be used somewhere no matter what --- autos, petrochemicals, or being flared, are the other main uses besides households. Why not ustilize as much as possible to the highest social value use --- cooking for the poor?" <br><br>Responses: <br>A. Do not flare it. That is pure waste.<br><br>B. Use LPG for autos because biomass is nowhere close to being as good for vehicle fuel. Unlimited demand for LPG as a vehicle fuel if the vehicles are equipped for LPG. Distribution problems are reduced because the vehicles go the the distribution stations. But why might this not appeal? One reason is that LPG would then compete with gasoline and diesel fuels, and that would be competition WITHIN the interests of Big Oil. So, therefore, it is more business if they direct LPG to the poor people.<br><br>C. LPG is NOT financially friendly to poor people. Yes, GIVE them an LPG stove and full tank, and then expect them to forever make payments for refills. Not a bad deal for the oil marketing companies (OMCs), of which there are three big ones in India, with the Government of India (GoI) owning more than 50% of each.<br><br>D. Sure the LPG and PNG are clean burning (the health arguement), but so are the MACCS that include biogas and alcohol and solar and electric and the "Woodgas from Biomass". And of those, the Woodgas / gasifiers can actually use locally grown biomass of many types, precisely the same fuels that those poor families are currently using in their smoky stoves that are causing indoor and outdoor pollution. Solid biomass is not a dirty fuel. Fuels need to be in the correct stoves where they are cleanly combusted.<br> <br> 4. On page 7 of the .pdf document, Smith comments regarding getting the LPG into "...the poorest and remotest parts of the country... where the density of connections is lower than distributors have enjoyed up to now. Use of women's self-help groups, rural cooperatives and other existing ogranizaitons will be needed..." THAT comment is equally valid (or even more valid) regarding the introduction of the CLEAN BURNING biomass stoves. And in those areas, the biomass fuels are local, and do not require trucks and then the manual carrying of metal LPG cylinders. <br><br>5. On page 8, there is discussion of the government expenditure of US$ 1.2 Billion for the PMUY programme for free LPG connections to 50 million households. "Indeed, it would seem that the programme can soon claim to be a social investment, not a subsidy. Both come from the taxpayer, but the former has a much different connotation when focused on the poor."<br><br>The same could be said if the stoves were the clean burning gasifier stoves. No, stop, wait. it is not the same. The biomass gasifiers can claim carbon credits and can actually PAY BACK the investment, So the government might only be a guarantor of loans that will be paid back to lenders such as the Asian Develpment Bank. <br><br>Please note that carbon credits with gasifier stoves are ALREADY being earned in India (Deganga case study in West Bengal). Without any money from the government (and therefore slower than it needs to be.). Also, note that the gasifier stoves are in areas within reach of the LPG distribution activities and the free LPG equipment. The people will decide what they want to use.<br><br>6. Finally, I am NOT against the LPG / PMUY programme. But I do want recognition and appropriate support (organizational and financial) for the expansion of the gasifier stove efforts in India. Smith's chapter virtually ignores the viable alternative / co-solution offered by the gasifier cookstoves. The issue is not about starting the gasifier efforts. Efforts are already underway, with proven results. The issue is to be supportive of the much more rapid expansion of those gasifier stove efforts. <br><br>May progress be made.<br><br>Paul<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 9/27/2017 12:04 PM, Kirk Smith wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Below is the first para of Kirk R. Smith, 2017, <i>The Indian LPG Programmes: Globally Pioneering Initiatives</i>, Chapter 5 in Bibek Debroy & Ashok Malik, eds, </span><u><span style='font-size:14.0pt'>India@70; <a href="mailto:Modi@3.5" target="_blank"><span style='color:#0563C1'>Modi@3.5</span></a></span></u><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>, </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Wisdom Tree, New Delhi, 211 pp.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>The full chapter can be downloaded from the website at the bottom. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>(and here: </span><a href="http://www.kirkrsmith.org/" target="_blank"><span style='color:#0563C1'>http://www.kirkrsmith.org/ </span></a><br>or directly at: <a href="http://www.kirkrsmith.org/publications/2017/9/27/the-indian-lpg-programmes-globally-pioneering-initiatives" target="_blank">http://www.kirkrsmith.org/publications/2017/9/27/the-indian-lpg-programmes-globally-pioneering-initiatives</a> )<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div style='border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 1.0pt 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><img border=0 width=706 height=431 style='width:7.3583in;height:4.4916in' id="m_2181914421431845942Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.png@01D33C86.F0A955F0"><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div style='border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-left:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:none;padding:1.0pt 0in 1.0pt 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'>Kirk R. Smith, MPH, PhD <</span><a href="mailto:krksmith@berkeley.edu" target="_blank">krksmith@berkeley.edu</a><span style='color:black'>></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'>Professor of Global Environmental Heath</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'>School of Public Health, University of California Berkeley and</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Collaborative Clean Air Policy Centre<span style='color:black'>, India Habitat Centre, New Delhi </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'>Indian cell number: (91) 99-5873-8713; </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><a href="http://www.kirkrsmith.org/" target="_blank"><span style='color:#0563C1'>http://www.kirkrsmith.org/</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='color:black'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal>If you are interested in receiving the messages directly from Kirk smith, you can subscribe to the group as I have done.<span style='color:#888888'><br><br><span class=hoenzb><o:p></o:p></span></span></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#888888'>-- <br>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups <a href="mailto:stove@lists.berkeley.edu" target="_blank">"stove@lists.berkeley.edu"</a> group.<br>To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to <a href="mailto:stove+unsubscribe@lists.berkeley.edu" target="_blank">stove+unsubscribe@lists.berkeley.edu</a>.</span><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></body></html>