<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Hi Ron, </div><div id="AppleMailSignature">Thanks for the links. Perhaps you can elaborate more thoroughly on why you like the message of Radha you forwarded, and what idea or evidence of empowerment or equity you feel it demonstrates?</div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="AppleMailSignature">Best,</div><div id="AppleMailSignature">SA<br><br><br></div><div><br>On 6 Oct 2017, at 02:38, Ronal W. Larson <<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"><div class="">Samer and list, cc Nikhil:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Thanks for the response. I believe you have opened an important topic for discussion. I confess I have not yet figured out your own perspective on this stove-gender topic.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>I suggest that the NY Times piece is not the right place to focus our discussion on this tope. The reason - I see no mention of stoves. There are more than 250 comments to the Times on this (today’s) article - and most quite strongly both pro and con. Therefore probably something that is not too helpful for this list.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>The new one from Samer in the Atlantic also barely mentions cooking, as it concentrates on electricity availability. I think there are so many differences between PV for developing countries and stoves that I don’t believe we can have much helpful dialog there. Or not?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Nikhil’s mention in his last paragraph of “<i class="">contextual design and promotion of clean biomass stoves”,</i> probably refers to a UN Bank effort in Indonesia - with that title. See <a href="https://openknowledge.worldbank.org/handle/10986/25129" class="">https://openknowledge.worldbank.org/handle/10986/25129</a> . I may be agreeing with Nikhil here - but I have not read that study yet..</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>But there is a wealth of gender-based stove discussion at the GACC site. I liked what I saw from Rudha Muthiah at <a href="http://cleancookstoves.org/about/news/03-06-2015-adoption-of-clean-cookstoves-and-fuels-boosts-gender-equality.html" class="">http://cleancookstoves.org/about/news/03-06-2015-adoption-of-clean-cookstoves-and-fuels-boosts-gender-equality.html</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Others from GACC are at: <a href="http://cleancookstoves.org/resources/223.html" class="">http://cleancookstoves.org/resources/223.html</a> and <a href="https://energypedia.info/images/6/69/Jennifer_Tweddell_(GACC)_-_Gender_and_Improved_Cookstoves.pdf" class="">https://energypedia.info/images/6/69/Jennifer_Tweddell_%28GACC%29_-_Gender_and_Improved_Cookstoves.pdf</a> . And there are more.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Is there agreement or disagreement that GACC is on the right track on this stove/gender topic?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Ron</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Oct 5, 2017, at 2:59 PM, Samer Abdelnour <<a href="mailto:samer.abdelnour@gmail.com" class="">samer.abdelnour@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div class="">Thanks Ron and Nikhil,<br class=""><br class=""></div>Indeed, the piece cautions generic claims of empowerment based on the dissemination of some form of techno-solution -- be it chickens or cookstoves -- and as I read the piece I drew so many parallels with the generic rhetoric spewed by cookstove-gender enthusiasts. Hence, I am a bit surprised the link to how cookstoves are promoted as an empowerment tool is not more evident.<br class=""><br class="">I think the piece challenges us take into critical consideration the aspirational messages that hold cookstoves to be a universal solution to issues poor women face. Even if they are effective in one context or intervention, benefits are rarely universal. Here I don't speak about tangible health impacts such as reduced burns and exposure to smoke when stoves fit the contexts of their use, or money saved by enabling households to use less fuel, but the more generic apolitical rhetoric of empowerment. As Nikhil reminds us, the origins of the empowerment discourse is indeed more complicated and perhaps impacts may be conceived of in more basic terms, of which cooks should decide for themselves, and not by advocates or NGOs passing around free stoves.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Here is another piece that you may or may not see a link:<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/sponsored/deloitte-shifts/women-energy-and-economic-empowerment/261/" class="">http://www.theatlantic.com/sponsored/deloitte-shifts/women-energy-and-economic-empowerment/261/</a><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">It more appropriately look as the structural issue of energy access, but still, fails to get away from the 'aspirational' rhetoric associated with technology/entrepreneurship that in my opinion distracts us from looking at real impacts. Like the work I have done deconstructing the rape-stove myth, these aspirational memes can become so powerful they are taken as 'fact' and uncritically reproduced even without supporting evidence.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Best to you,</div><div class="">SA<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On 5 October 2017 at 20:40, Ronal W. Larson <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net" target="_blank" class="">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>></span> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" class="">Dr. Samer and list; cc Nikhil<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="gmail-m_7269279932334470365Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>Since you have highly recommended this article and Nikhil has panned it, I hope you can add a few words on why you liked it. I have read (really skimmed) both the shorter and longer versions - but not seen much that related to stoves. The exception is on the word “rape”, which you have written a lot on - as relates to stoves.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="gmail-m_7269279932334470365Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>Clearly gender issues should be foremost on this list. Can you explain more on why you strongly recommended this article?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Ron</div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Oct 5, 2017, at 9:16 AM, Nikhil Desai <<a href="mailto:pienergy2008@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">pienergy2008@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="gmail-m_7269279932334470365Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">Sorry, Samer. These "feminists from the Global South" did not care about the drudgery of cooking in women's lives. The Fourth World Conference on Women in 1995 - where Mrs. Clinton led the US delegation if I remember correctly - had nothing to say about cooking. <br class=""><br class="">Nor for that matter the World Development Report on Gender, circa 2007/8. I am glad that even with Julia Roberts and Oprah Winfrey, GACC got the feminists to talk about cookstoves. <br class=""><br class="">Those women who understand "“empowerment” as the task of “transforming gender subordination” and the breakdown of “other oppressive structures” and collective “political mobilization.”" usually do not cook and have no experience collecting, transporting and stacking wood. <br class=""><br class="">Like "clean", women's empowerment is contextual. Take a survey of 15-year old school-going girls among the "households using solid fuels" and ask how many of them want to cook and how many still on open fires. <br class=""><br class="">If the objective of "contextual design and promotion of clean biomass stoves" is defined in terms of cook-friendly service standard - i.e, as "pleasing the cook" - I assure you a pleased woman feels less powerless. <br class=""><br class="">That is empowerment. <br class=""><br class="">Nikhil<span class="gmail-"><br class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class=""><div class="gmail-m_7269279932334470365gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""> <br class=""><br class=""></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 10:40 AM, Samer Abdelnour <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:samer.abdelnour@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">samer.abdelnour@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)"><div dir="ltr" class="">A great piece for those interested in cookstoves + social impact.<br class=""><br class=""><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/05/opinion/the-myth-of-womens-empowerment.html" target="_blank" class="">https://www.nytimes.com/2017/1<wbr class="">0/05/opinion/the-myth-of-women<wbr class="">s-empowerment.html</a><br class=""></div>
<br class=""> <br class=""></blockquote></div></div></span></div>
______________________________<wbr class="">_________________<br class="">Stoves mailing list<br class=""><br class="">to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br class=""><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank" class="">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.<wbr class="">org</a><br class=""><br class="">to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br class=""><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank" class="">http://lists.bioenergylists.<wbr class="">org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_<wbr class="">lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br class=""><br class="">for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br class=""><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank" class="">http://stoves.bioenergylists.<wbr class="">org/</a><br class=""><br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div></div></div></div></div>
</div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></blockquote></body></html>