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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=FR link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Samer is making excellent points here. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I believe in the huge positive impact improved cookstoves can have, otherwise I wouldn’t have dedicated such an important part of my life and so many efforts. But obviously, a lot of claims are being made, and we need much more data.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal>« As Nikhil suggests, contraceptives are revolutionary in that they give women (and households) tremendous choice and control with little effort. »<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Amen to that. There are studies, by the Guttmacher Institute and Bill Gates Foundation, saying that access and use of contraception is one of the best drivers of change, and best return on investment.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>And this, is empowerment. Giving a women or a girl the choice to decide if and when she wants to give birth, and how she wants to live her life. Giving her access and allowing her to use contraceptives as well as abortion. Not having the husband, the mother-in-law, nor the society decide for her.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>And, this is not that costly. Rachel Kyte was talking about billions of dollars for the improved cookstoves sector, maybe these billions should flow to family planning and girls education instead.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><br>Best,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Xavier<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>De :</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] <b>De la part de</b> Samer Abdelnour<br><b>Envoyé :</b> vendredi 6 octobre 2017 23:51<br><b>À :</b> Ronal W. Larson<br><b>Cc :</b> Crispin Pemberton-Pigott; Discussion of biomass<br><b>Objet :</b> Re: [Stoves] Women's empowerment<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Hi Ron,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div id=AppleMailSignature><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div><div id=AppleMailSignature><p class=MsoNormal>I would ask you for evidence of the figures stated.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div id=AppleMailSignature><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div><div id=AppleMailSignature><ul type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo1'><i>470,000 lives, most of whom are women and children;</i><o:p></o:p></li></ul><div><p class=MsoNormal>As Nikhil has noted too well, estimates of life/health lost (not lives lost, which is incorrect), are based on little to no data, just models.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div><ul type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2;orphans: auto;widows: auto;box-sizing: border-box'><i> More than 100 hours per household spent collecting firewood;</i><o:p></o:p></li></ul><div><p class=MsoNormal>This is a regular claim made, and a good example of decontextualized rhetoric. The who and where is missing. For instance, where there are markets I would expect (and have found) that most women purchase fuel, even as NGOs that promote stoves claim otherwise.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div><ul type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo3;orphans: auto;widows: auto;box-sizing: border-box'><i> 6.2% of household income; and</i><o:p></o:p></li></ul><div><p class=MsoNormal>In Darfur it is much more. Women are grateful for stoves as they enable them to buy cheaper fuels as firewood is expensive and the price highly vulnerable to fluctuations. Again, where does this come from?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div><ul type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo4;orphans: auto;widows: auto;box-sizing: border-box'><i> The amount of CO2 emitted by 65,000,000 passenger vehicles.</i><o:p></o:p></li></ul><p class=MsoNormal>A key reason for this stoves advocacy revealed? Carbon off$et$? With each meal prepared poor women will generate carbon offsets - likely without their knowledge - empowerment or global carbon credit sweat shop?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div id=AppleMailSignature><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div><div id=AppleMailSignature><p class=MsoNormal>Your grandchildren are lucky to have you. But would you ever imagine a domestic technology being a source of empowerment? Forgive the example, but if a hair dryer or kettle saves your granddaughters time getting ready in the morning, under what circumstances is that time saved empowerment? <o:p></o:p></p></div><div id=AppleMailSignature><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div><div id=AppleMailSignature><p class=MsoNormal>As Nikhil suggests, contraceptives are revolutionary in that they give women (and households) tremendous choice and control with little effort.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div id=AppleMailSignature><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div><div id=AppleMailSignature><p class=MsoNormal>Again, I don't deny the health and economic benefits of cookstoves, but how these translate to structural change is important to articulate if the claim of empowerment is to be made. Empowerment for whom? By what mechanism? What social or gender changes result?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div id=AppleMailSignature><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div><div id=AppleMailSignature><p class=MsoNormal>And when does a technological object actually address structural inequalities? For instance, suggesting women use improved stoves to reduce rape reminds me of police chiefs telling women not to wear skirts but pants to avoid provoking attacks, which happened spawning the global slutwalks events. Here the stove/pant fix fails to address the underlying structural problem that oppresses.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div id=AppleMailSignature><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div><div id=AppleMailSignature><p class=MsoNormal>Women in Darfur want LPG stoves, they are fast, cleaner burning, and easy to control. Similar to how many people elsewhere would want to be connected to the grid. We should subsidize energy infrastructure so that poor and rural girls can grow up like your granddaughters, energy at the flick of a switch. So that a girl in a camp in Darfur can safely prepare tea in the same way as a girl in the US. That would be empowerment, no? <o:p></o:p></p></div><div id=AppleMailSignature><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div><div id=AppleMailSignature><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks for entertaining my rumblings, and for the discussion.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div id=AppleMailSignature><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div><div id=AppleMailSignature><p class=MsoNormal>SA<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>On 6 Oct 2017, at 22:06, Ronal W. Larson <<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Dr. Abdelnour and list:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>1. I thank Tom Miles and Crispin for additions today also - but they were not looking at Samer’s question on Radha’s report (I stated below: “<i> I liked what I saw from Rudha Muthiah at <a href="http://cleancookstoves.org/about/news/03-06-2015-adoption-of-clean-cookstoves-and-fuels-boosts-gender-equality.html">http://cleancookstoves.org/about/news/03-06-2015-adoption-of-clean-cookstoves-and-fuels-boosts-gender-equality.html</a> . </i>I hope they and others will also answer Samer’s several questions.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>2. Q1: Why I liked the message. Short answer: It states much of what I would say on the coupling of the terms “stoves” and “gender equality”. Having five grand-children who are all girls is part of the reason. To save list members time and space I include her message all here - separated by my “why” inserts. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:7.5pt;background:white;box-sizing: border-box;font-variant-ligatures: normal;orphans: 2;widows: 2'><i><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#616161'>Cooking is one of the most dangerous activities for girls and women in the developing world, where more than half the population still cooks food over open fires.</span></i><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#616161'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:7.5pt;background:white;box-sizing: border-box;font-variant-ligatures: normal;orphans: 2;widows: 2'><span class=apple-tab-span><b><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#616161'> </span></b></span><b><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#616161'>RWL1: I like and believe “most dangerous”. This not limited to your expertise on “sexual attack” - where I claim zero expertise. I can’t think of a more dangerous activity.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:7.5pt;background:white;box-sizing: border-box;font-variant-ligatures: normal;orphans: 2;widows: 2'><i><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#616161'>Without access to cleaner cookstoves and fuels, women endure incredible hardships. They are exposed to deadly smoke that kills over <a href="http://cleancookstoves.org/impact-areas/health/"><b><span style='color:#267D84;text-decoration:none'>4 million people</span></b></a> every year and causes cancer, pneumonia, and lung disease. Women and children also must risk their safety, health, and sometimes their lives, to search for and collect fuel. In many cases, women walk for hours to find firewood and have to carry heavy loads, putting them at risk for physical and sexual attack, dehydration, and physical injuries.</span></i><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#616161'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span> </span><b><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#616161;background:white'>RWL2: Again, I believe all 3 sentences - and especially the second on multi million annual deaths. Men are not doing their share in cooking.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:7.5pt;background:white;box-sizing: border-box;font-variant-ligatures: normal;orphans: 2;widows: 2'><i><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#616161'>While there is much to celebrate for women and girls since the original <a href="http://beijing20.unwomen.org/en" target="_blank"><b><span style='color:#267D84;text-decoration:none'>Beijing Declaration and Platform for Action</span></b></a> was created, one crucial driver of gender equality and women’s empowerment was completely omitted from the framework – access to cleaner household energy.</span></i><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#616161'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span> </span><b><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#616161;background:white'>RWL3: I was not aware that the Beijing Declaration had left out stoves. When I read this, I thought of Hillary Clinton who may have helped GACC so much because of that earlier failure, where I believe she had a strong role. </span></b><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:7.5pt;background:white;box-sizing: border-box;font-variant-ligatures: normal;orphans: 2;widows: 2'><i><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#616161'>Clean cooking energy access is a critical global gender issue cutting across several Beijing Platform for Action areas of concern; it is especially important for achieving success in the areas of (1) women and health, (2) women and poverty, (3) women and the environment, and (4) women and the economy.</span></i><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#616161'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span> </span><b><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#616161;background:white'>RWL4: The 12 action areas are listed at </span></b><a href="http://www.unwomen.org/en/news/in-focus/csw59/feature-stories">http://www.unwomen.org/en/news/in-focus/csw59/feature-stories</a>. Four sounds OK; I guess Radha was saying here that stoves are really in the Beijing document. But stoves are certainly not called out in the way I believe this list would have done 22 years ago<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:7.5pt;background:white;box-sizing: border-box;font-variant-ligatures: normal;orphans: 2;widows: 2'><i><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#616161'>There is a growing movement of companies, individuals, non-profits, and entrepreneurs focused on creating awareness about the clean cooking issue, on enhancing the performance and availability of technologies and fuels, and on strengthening enterprises so they can scale production and distribution.</span></i><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#616161'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span> </span><b><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#616161;background:white'>RWL5: Radha is perhaps here saying that the GACC is real. I personally am impressed with the GACC - especially their ability to raise funds and increase visibility on the stove topic (including gender inequality).</span></b><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:7.5pt;background:white;box-sizing: border-box;font-variant-ligatures: normal;orphans: 2;widows: 2'><i><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#616161'>Together with our more than 1,000 partners, the Global Alliance for Clean Cookstoves has an ambitious goal to foster the adoption of clean cookstoves and fuels in 100 million households by 2020, and to help create a world where there is universal access and use of cleaner energy and cookstoves by the year 2030, with women actively contributing to and benefiting from this vision.</span></i><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#616161'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span> </span><b><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#616161;background:white'>RWL6: Probably mandatory to get these GACC goals in as one is talking about gender equity. Much better to have goals than not. My perception is that GACC is doing a good job involving women in GACC programs.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:7.5pt;background:white;box-sizing: border-box;font-variant-ligatures: normal;orphans: 2;widows: 2'><i><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#616161'>Adoption of cleaner cookstoves and fuels by 100 million households will have broad impacts on women’s empowerment. Over 10 years, it will save:</span></i><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#616161'><o:p></o:p></span></p><ul type=disc><li class=MsoNormal style='color:#616161;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo5;background:white;box-sizing: border-box'><i><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> 470,000 lives, most of whom are women and children;</span></i><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoNormal style='color:#616161;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo5;background:white;box-sizing: border-box'><i><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> More than 100 hours per household spent collecting firewood;</span></i><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoNormal style='color:#616161;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo5;background:white;box-sizing: border-box'><i><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> 6.2% of household income; and</span></i><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=MsoNormal style='color:#616161;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo5;background:white;box-sizing: border-box'><i><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> The amount of CO2 emitted by 65,000,000 passenger vehicles.</span></i><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></li></ul><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span><i><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#616161'> </span></i></span><b><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#616161;background:white'>RWL7: The 2nd item (100 hours) seems like a typo. Anyone have an idea where that (and the others) came from? I would guess we are taking time savings several orders of magnitude larger. The first three are clearly gender-oriented. My stove interest is largely on the fourth - and I am still glad to see it in a gender-oriented document.</span></b><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:7.5pt;background:white;box-sizing: border-box;font-variant-ligatures: normal;orphans: 2;widows: 2'><i><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#616161'>The 20th anniversary of the <a href="http://beijing20.unwomen.org/en" target="_blank"><b><span style='color:#267D84;text-decoration:none'>Beijing Platform for Action</span></b></a> opens a new opportunity to acknowledge the critical role access to clean cookstoves and fuels plays in achieving gender equality. As we look toward Beijing+20 and commemorate <a href="http://www.un.org/en/events/womensday/" target="_blank"><b><span style='color:#267D84;text-decoration:none'>International Women’s Day</span></b></a>, now is the time to commit to working together to achieve our 2030 vision of a world where cooking does not kill and women are not disadvantaged in their homes, their communities, and their countries because of the lack of access to clean cooking energy.</span></i><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#616161'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:7.5pt;background:white;box-sizing: border-box;font-variant-ligatures: normal;orphans: 2;widows: 2'><span class=apple-tab-span><i><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#616161'> </span></i></span><b><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#616161'>RWL8: It is now more clear to me that this whole piece was timed for the 20th anniversary. Glad to see Radha pick that timing to place emphasis on the strong relationship between the GACC program and gender. I would say that (globally) stove activities are at least 80% oriented toward women. And the remaining 20% for men is probably the reason that stove research funding is so low. </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:7.5pt;background:white;box-sizing: border-box;font-variant-ligatures: normal;orphans: 2;widows: 2'><i><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#616161'> </span></i><span class=apple-tab-span><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#616161'> </span></span><b><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#616161'>3. Re “</span></b><i><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#616161'>evidence of empowerment or equity” </span></i>I have these thoughts (new - not when I wrote that I liked this Radha short effort at tying GACC to gender topics):<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>a. <b><span style='font-size:11.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#616161;background:white'> This is a good time to call attention to this site: </span></b><a href="https://www.devex.com/news/clean-cookstove-market-needs-wholesale-reappraisal-rachel-kyte-91045"><span style='background:white'>https://www.devex.com/news/clean-cookstove-market-needs-wholesale-reappraisal-rachel-kyte-91045</span></a><span style='background:white'>, where Rachel Kyte called for more than a 100x increase in annual stove funding - to more than $4 billion. This is only on the order of $2/yr per (woman) biomass stove user. Good for Ms. Kyte to put the global stove problem in perspective. Few men would dare recommend such a huge change.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='background:white'><br><br></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span><span style='background:white'> </span></span><span style='background:white'>b. Radha’s emphasis on the Beijing documents</span>’ failure to address stoves would seem to be evidence of empowerment by someone. I give more credit to GACC (and Radha at its helm) for that big (still insufficient) growth in support for stove improvement.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>c. Re “equity”, I believe that Radha is describing improvement over the Beijing period (which occurred just about the time this list got under way). I doubt anyone working in the stoves arena believes we have achieved gender equity. Equity, equality, and empowerment are all tied together in the substantial improvement in funding since the Beijing occasion that prompted this short editorial.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>4. Your thoughts on this article? (or anything related to “gender equality” - the article’s title?) Or any list member?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Ron<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Oct 6, 2017, at 12:42 AM, Samer Abdelnour <<a href="mailto:samer.abdelnour@gmail.com">samer.abdelnour@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Hi Ron, <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Thanks for the links. Perhaps you can elaborate more thoroughly on why you like the message of Radha you forwarded, and what idea or evidence of empowerment or equity you feel it demonstrates?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Best,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>SA<br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>On 6 Oct 2017, at 02:38, Ronal W. Larson <<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Samer and list, cc Nikhil:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>Thanks for the response. I believe you have opened an important topic for discussion. I confess I have not yet figured out your own perspective on this stove-gender topic.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>I suggest that the NY Times piece is not the right place to focus our discussion on this tope. The reason - I see no mention of stoves. There are more than 250 comments to the Times on this (today’s) article - and most quite strongly both pro and con. Therefore probably something that is not too helpful for this list.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>The new one from Samer in the Atlantic also barely mentions cooking, as it concentrates on electricity availability. I think there are so many differences between PV for developing countries and stoves that I don’t believe we can have much helpful dialog there. Or not?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>Nikhil’s mention in his last paragraph of “<i>contextual design and promotion of clean biomass stoves”,</i> probably refers to a UN Bank effort in Indonesia - with that title. See <a href="https://openknowledge.worldbank.org/handle/10986/25129">https://openknowledge.worldbank.org/handle/10986/25129</a> . I may be agreeing with Nikhil here - but I have not read that study yet..<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>But there is a wealth of gender-based stove discussion at the GACC site. I liked what I saw from Rudha Muthiah at <a href="http://cleancookstoves.org/about/news/03-06-2015-adoption-of-clean-cookstoves-and-fuels-boosts-gender-equality.html">http://cleancookstoves.org/about/news/03-06-2015-adoption-of-clean-cookstoves-and-fuels-boosts-gender-equality.html</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>Others from GACC are at: <a href="http://cleancookstoves.org/resources/223.html">http://cleancookstoves.org/resources/223.html</a> and <a href="https://energypedia.info/images/6/69/Jennifer_Tweddell_(GACC)_-_Gender_and_Improved_Cookstoves.pdf">https://energypedia.info/images/6/69/Jennifer_Tweddell_%28GACC%29_-_Gender_and_Improved_Cookstoves.pdf</a> . And there are more.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>Is there agreement or disagreement that GACC is on the right track on this stove/gender topic?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Ron<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Oct 5, 2017, at 2:59 PM, Samer Abdelnour <<a href="mailto:samer.abdelnour@gmail.com">samer.abdelnour@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Thanks Ron and Nikhil,<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>Indeed, the piece cautions generic claims of empowerment based on the dissemination of some form of techno-solution -- be it chickens or cookstoves -- and as I read the piece I drew so many parallels with the generic rhetoric spewed by cookstove-gender enthusiasts. Hence, I am a bit surprised the link to how cookstoves are promoted as an empowerment tool is not more evident.<br><br>I think the piece challenges us take into critical consideration the aspirational messages that hold cookstoves to be a universal solution to issues poor women face. Even if they are effective in one context or intervention, benefits are rarely universal. Here I don't speak about tangible health impacts such as reduced burns and exposure to smoke when stoves fit the contexts of their use, or money saved by enabling households to use less fuel, but the more generic apolitical rhetoric of empowerment. As Nikhil reminds us, the origins of the empowerment discourse is indeed more complicated and perhaps impacts may be conceived of in more basic terms, of which cooks should decide for themselves, and not by advocates or NGOs passing around free stoves.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Here is another piece that you may or may not see a link:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://www.theatlantic.com/sponsored/deloitte-shifts/women-energy-and-economic-empowerment/261/">http://www.theatlantic.com/sponsored/deloitte-shifts/women-energy-and-economic-empowerment/261/</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>It more appropriately look as the structural issue of energy access, but still, fails to get away from the 'aspirational' rhetoric associated with technology/entrepreneurship that in my opinion distracts us from looking at real impacts. Like the work I have done deconstructing the rape-stove myth, these aspirational memes can become so powerful they are taken as 'fact' and uncritically reproduced even without supporting evidence.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Best to you,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>SA<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 5 October 2017 at 20:40, Ronal W. Larson <<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net" target="_blank">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Dr. Samer and list; cc Nikhil<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Since you have highly recommended this article and Nikhil has panned it, I hope you can add a few words on why you liked it. I have read (really skimmed) both the shorter and longer versions - but not seen much that related to stoves. The exception is on the word “rape”, which you have written a lot on - as relates to stoves.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Clearly gender issues should be foremost on this list. Can you explain more on why you strongly recommended this article?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Ron<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Oct 5, 2017, at 9:16 AM, Nikhil Desai <<a href="mailto:pienergy2008@gmail.com" target="_blank">pienergy2008@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Sorry, Samer. These "feminists from the Global South" did not care about the drudgery of cooking in women's lives. The Fourth World Conference on Women in 1995 - where Mrs. Clinton led the US delegation if I remember correctly - had nothing to say about cooking. <br><br>Nor for that matter the World Development Report on Gender, circa 2007/8. I am glad that even with Julia Roberts and Oprah Winfrey, GACC got the feminists to talk about cookstoves. <br><br>Those women who understand "“empowerment” as the task of “transforming gender subordination” and the breakdown of “other oppressive structures” and collective “political mobilization.”" usually do not cook and have no experience collecting, transporting and stacking wood. <br><br>Like "clean", women's empowerment is contextual. Take a survey of 15-year old school-going girls among the "households using solid fuels" and ask how many of them want to cook and how many still on open fires. <br><br>If the objective of "contextual design and promotion of clean biomass stoves" is defined in terms of cook-friendly service standard - i.e, as "pleasing the cook" - I assure you a pleased woman feels less powerless. <br><br>That is empowerment. <br><br>Nikhil<span class=gmail-><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 10:40 AM, Samer Abdelnour <<a href="mailto:samer.abdelnour@gmail.com" target="_blank">samer.abdelnour@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>A great piece for those interested in cookstoves + social impact.<br><br><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/05/opinion/the-myth-of-womens-empowerment.html" target="_blank">https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/05/opinion/the-myth-of-womens-empowerment.html</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></blockquote></div><div id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2">
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